Help! Dodgy Cowboy Plasterer

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flevy84

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Hi, I had a DPC installed in my house last year and had a recommended plasterer in to put in S&C with salt retardant chemicals etc to make sure the damp and salts didn't come through again. However, he used dot and dab plasterboard (I couldn't tell with the finished product as I was no expert) and sure enough on the dabs etc the damp and salts came back through. i couldn't get hold of him and so bit the bullet and got another plasterer in to redo the job. I came back to the house half way through the job to see nothing but used hardwall bags and hardwall on the walls, not the renovating plaster he promised. I called him and was assured that renovating plaster was used beneath the hardwall first. Dubious as I was I believed it and paid him when he finished but now I seriously doubt that he has done that at all as I can't find any evidence and all the empty bags are either hardwall or finishing. As soon as I had paid him up front for materials he has just come across as dodgy and so I took the liberty of recording all phone calls (HTCs are handy for some things!) and so I'm wondering where i can go with my evidence as he has basically ripped me off and bare faced lied to me. he has also never provided any paperwork and I know I have been foolish in not requesting this and paying cash.
 
Why was he using Hardwall over the renovating plaster? Should be a finishing plaster eg renderlite

How could you make the same mistake twice did you get a written quotation?

In future get a specification from a remedial surveyor and a company that carries out and guarantees to that specification.
 
well in hindsight i should have used the dpc company, but the quote given with the home report when i bought the house only included the dpc, no plastering work so i arranged that with the first guy who cut corners. I didn't have written quotation no, Foolishly took his word for it as he had done other plastering work in the house which was of a high standard and thought I could trust him.
 
Any reputable DPC company would leave you with a spec. with explicit instructions to be followed to the letter. Plasterer would also know this
 
Hi I appreciate that, but the DPC company aren't even returning my calls as I'm trying to contact them regrading salts in a few rooms that they did actually plaster. Anyway I'm not asking for people to judge or comment on what has already happened, I 'm asking for advice on the present situation and what i can do going forward, there is nothing I can do about the past apart from learn from it.

The guy is a reputable self employed plasterer, came on recommendation and did a fine job in another room where even another previous plaster messed up ( I didn't pay that one!), so I had no reason not to believe what I have been told.

Has anyone experienced hardwall on walls which previously had damp and the salts coming through? I don't know whether i should just hope it doesn't come through or strip and redo with a reputable firm (everything in writing first!). Either way I am most definitely going to try trading standards etc to get this guy reprimanded.
 
Mate in my opinion once their gone their gone, you can try trading standards your only hope at least he'll be a marked man.

Put it this way though you would Never use hardwall on any damp wall
Rederlite etc are lime based allowing the wall the breath, hardwall is likely to blow off after a while

The other thing when you say DPC your saying the cemical injection method?? I ask cause if they had done it an its failed why? or have they just not done it at all?

Suppose its hard for you to know that.

I guess if the dpc had worked an you cleaned the salts off then dabs would have stuck cause the wall should be stable
 
If you have had the walls undercoated with Hardwall its likely you will get future problems. Its Gypsum based and will act like a sponge if there is still damp present.
The job needs to be redone with a cement based product to be sure you have no more damp problems.
 
mikeec1985 said:
Mate in my opinion once their gone their gone, you can try trading standards your only hope at least he'll be a marked man.

Put it this way though you would Never use hardwall on any damp wall
Rederlite etc are lime based allowing the wall the breath, hardwall is likely to blow off after a while

The other thing when you say DPC your saying the cemical injection method?? I ask cause if they had done it an its failed why? or have they just not done it at all?

Suppose its hard for you to know that.

I guess if the dpc had worked an you cleaned the salts off then dabs would have stuck cause the wall should be stable same for the hardwall
Click to expand...
 
Thanks, trading standards are on the case, as are HMRC, just going to enjoy my nice looking walls until the damp comes through again!
 
Even if the job had been done properly you can still get salt on your walls, it takes 1 month per inch of wall thickness to dry out. that why you shouldnt paper your walls for 6-8 months after the injection and only paint then after 4-6 weeks with a non vinyl paint ( trade paint) but using hardwall is a big no no. Start savings your pennys to hack it all off and redo it properly marra.
 
I with ya artisan mate but think of this senarion..

original walls were hardwall when house was built.

then had damp problem, rising damp say so hardwalls blown off.

correction have the injection dpc installed . clean the salts off with stabaliser .

now the wall should be as good as original.

Why could this not be dabbed hardwalled etc ?

or anyone ? cheers
 
I've never heard of a house that's modern enough to have been plastered with Hardwall from new suffering from rising damp, I could be well of the mark but I've never heard of it.
 
I've not been involved with many damp proofing jobs but every one I have been has specified some "special" waterproofing agent be added to the S&C or has used a premixed bagged S&C render with waterproofer already added, and the firms wont guarantee their silicon injection system unless the 1m of render is also done to their spec. And I reckon that's because they've got more faith in the render holding back any damp than the silicon working.
 
You could've sbr slurry the wall then sand & cement with feb or lime then multi.
Or I seen someone use this dry coat from gyproc then multi on top.
I did the 1st one on my friends house a year ago after he injected it & it's ok still.
 
DuncTheMonk said:
You could've sbr slurry the wall then sand & cement with feb or lime then multi.
Or I seen someone use this dry coat from gyproc then multi on top.
I did the 1st one on my friends house a year ago after he injected it & it's ok still.
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How the **** can you be giving advise on the use of S&C Dunc? In the rendering section you've said you'll have to google Feb and didn't even seem to know of the existence of hydrated lime or know what strength of mix goes onto what.
 
yeah bit like anti aging cream the shite,

They promise you world, only to find a few years down the line you been lied too , your hundreds of pounds down an you look like an old satsuma .

I never known what to make of the stuff lot of divided opinion about it.

Last one i re-done someone tanked the wall (house below ground level) then s&c 1m high upto the plasterboard they'd cut back !! quality

I liked the idea of slurry on top of tanking + throwing some sand in the tanking for bit of a key to help adhesion
 
mikeec1985 said:
I with ya artisan mate but think of this senarion..

original walls were hardwall when house was built.
Did the bloke who hardwalled it for you tell you this?

then had damp problem, rising damp say so hardwalls blown off.
suppose it could have been hacked off previously and incorrectly re-plastered with browning?more than likely its just an old sandy, limey mix

correction have the injection dpc installed . clean the salts off with stabaliser .
neutraliser, not stabliser, 2 very different chemicals, one is basically vinegar and water, the other is designed to help bond friable surfaces together. In either event, as per artisans advice, masonary dries at 1mm per day, or 1 inch per month, or thereabouts... once the dpc is installed, the wall will begin to dry out (via a process of evaporation and capillary action, the reverse of the process that let the water into the wall), bringing with it the hygroscopic (dissolved within the substrate) salts... now, unless your 'neutraliser' is going to penetrate the full thickness of the wall, there'll be more salts to contend with as the wall continues to dry out. Also worth noting - thistle dri-coat, (a prebagged 6:1:1 sand(and pearlite):cement:lime mix designed for use after the installation of a chemical dpc) also contains a salt neutralising additive along with a waterpoofing additive and will still not guarantee the further manifestation of hygroscopic salts as the wall dries out. it just 'helps'.

Artisans advice is 100% correct.


now the wall should be as good as original.
err. no.


Why could this not be dabbed hardwalled etc ?
even if you let it dry out for 5 years, its not a good idea to use gypsum based backing plaster on an external wall without a cavity to stop rainwater soaking through eventually to the inside during periods of very heavy rainfall where the outside face of the wall will be unable to evaporate the moisture back to atmosphere quick enough before the next heavy downpour.
You could possibly get away with a waterproofed sand and cement scratch coat then dab or hardwall over the top but you'd have to be pretty damn sure of the waterproofing properties of the scratch coat and anyway, sand and cement is cheaper than both hardwall and plasterboard/board adhesive.

or anyone ? cheers
Click to expand...

another spec i just invented right here in my underpants is hack it all off again, give it a 3:1 sand:cement scratch with waterproofer then a float coat of thistle dri-coat...
what that may help with is suction control (s+c+waterproofer), cracking (dricoat on top, doesnt shrink as much as bog standard s+c), cost (s+c is a damn site cheaper than dricoat, especially helpful if any 'dubbing' out is required which will just eat your supply of money if youre using dricoat alone) and you'll be able to skim it earlier.. dricoat 12 hours minimum to finish application, sand and cement... see essexandy.. :RpS_wink:
 
mikeec1985 said:
yeah bit like anti aging cream the shite,

They promise you world, only to find a few years down the line you been lied too , your hundreds of pounds down an you look like an old satsuma .
Click to expand...

I disagree, I use it over my entire body, except for my rollocks and my nutsack is wrinkled to fk:-0
 
essexandy said:
I've not been involved with many damp proofing jobs but every one I have been has specified some "special" waterproofing agent be added to the S&C or has used a premixed bagged S&C render with waterproofer already added, and the firms wont guarantee their silicon injection system unless the 1m of render is also done to their spec. And I reckon that's because they've got more faith in the render holding back any damp than the silicon working.
Click to expand...
think its more to do with selling the customer some 3 in one with salt neutraliser at 38 quid for 5 litres.... supplied by the same company who manufacture the injection cream / tanking mortar / whatever... being as waterproofer acts on the cement, theres yer old 3:1 with added 3 IN 1 spec...
dricoat does the same job but better, reduces cracking etc... im not surprised most of em spec it. On most of these old damp jobs, youd be building the render out up to silly thicknesses in one hit, waiting a few months then going back with some easy fill to sort the cracks out... scrape the salts off and tell em, 'reight, you can paint it now:RpS_thumbup: or just take yer money an run... either or...
 
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