Scrim V Eml
- Thread starter Dirtybill
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Dirtybill
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Agreed, however they were using over thermalite in a scheme which has a whole row of house where the roughcast is falling off so in this occassion thats why eml is being used but i was thinking in general as i have seen it being used where crackin has been evident and i always thought scrim would have been a cheaper alternative.
plasterjfe
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they both have different uses so not realy to be compared to each other
Dirtybill
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They both have different uses but they they both can be used for the same, no?
The reason i say this is because i worked for a firm where they built houses and several of them suffered with extensive crackin, now i know scrim is more a preventive measure for this problem and lath is for key however they chose lathe over scrim once they went back to block which imo opinion seemed excessive and costly.
I was just wondering why they would use lath or why anyone would to solve a crackin problem when a cheaper alternative is available which in my opinion would do the same job?
The reason i say this is because i worked for a firm where they built houses and several of them suffered with extensive crackin, now i know scrim is more a preventive measure for this problem and lath is for key however they chose lathe over scrim once they went back to block which imo opinion seemed excessive and costly.
I was just wondering why they would use lath or why anyone would to solve a crackin problem when a cheaper alternative is available which in my opinion would do the same job?
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Dirtybill
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This i understand and im not saying thats what you would use it for however the point im makin is why use eml in high stress areas where scrim suffice?
Dont get me wrong this is all hypothetical im just wondering if it would be viable?
Dirtybill
New Member
Ha ha sorry guys I'm not arguing over its use but was questioning the way it was being used ie for a gable that was severely cracked, I don't have abgreat experience in the use of scrim and I was wondering do they use it a lot down south ie in s /c around stress points? I'm sure I saw that somewhere.
plasterjfe
Private Member
EML gives a mechanical key where backgrounds dont allow suction or adhesion if there was a high stress element involved also you would use a mesh coat after you had applied your EML the mesh will deal with the cracking the EML with the key or bridge.
IMO EML wont help at all with cracking if it wants to crack it will come straight through the EML
IMO EML wont help at all with cracking if it wants to crack it will come straight through the EML
how about when i window has been bricked in im pricing a job where they have done an extention and where the block layers have filled up the window holes there are hairline cracks round the opening.i could cut an expantion joint round the hole but that would look shite having two big squares in the middle of a wall would 1m mesh stop it from cracking?
i always got told to use EML before re plastering old property,over cracks in the walls and internal corners,beit 8x4 sheets or 6" wide strips.
this was off the architects of clerk of works,the blokes who invent all these theories.
i also would of thought metal would of been stronger than the scrim they use:RpS_thumbup:
but,in any case,you are right,if a building wants to crack,it will crack,no amount of s**t will hold it togeather:RpS_scared:
plasterjfe
Private Member
Depends on what year that information was issued - render has moved on massively in the last 15 years most species didnt know what fibre MESH was (some parts of the country still dont).
As for thinking the metal is stronger, this is where the fault lies - metal is rigid and will not give to movement. In your hand it will bend in two or break apart, MEsh will move anywhere but you cannot break or tear it. The holes in EML are also much bigger than MESH allowing more vibration to pass or any crack through to the surface, a Mesh product will bend absorb impact where as metal lath will promote the travel of vibration or impact, the MESH is fine helping to keep any cracks to a minimum or in the background or substrate maintaining good surface.
They can be used together of course, for example a plywood window bay felted would first be EML'd out rendered to depth mesh bedded in and scratched up ready to receive subsequent coats.
plasterjfe
Private Member
I think there is a knowledge problem across the building industry, sharing info is not widespread. I kinda have to favour nvq quals on this side of things although some of th best spreads I have seen dont have nvq and some yunger lads with nvq still dont know much about products or chemichals they use ? beats me
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Dirtybill
New Member
This i agree with there is a whole wealth of knowledge out there that isnt being made available to the trade in regards to new render systems and methods and the do's and dont with certain materials etc, i feel as though thats why some firms/tradesmen are being left behind in the game to others that do.
plasterjfe
Private Member
agree with lucius also ther that alot of people are set in their ways and do not like change, each to there own i guess
the problem i find with new ways,is some don't work.
this year i have had to go and knock off 2 houses(council) which had been over rendered using the scrim stuff and top coat,don't know which sort.they had blown of the substrate,so knocked off scrim stuff,then other old render,then re rendered.
i was talking to a old chap the other week about a load of over rendering they are doing up my way,sticking insulation over the old render,then rendering over with the scrim stuff,it looks a real good job,but the chap said "you watch,in 10years it will be blowing off like a old prostitute,becouse when water gets behind it,maybe a leaking roof,or gutter,it will soak the insulation,and eventually blow it".
going off what plasterers got taught at college years ago,off old timers,i kind of agree with this chap:RpS_thumbup:
but more work for plasterers in ten years(if not before)
this year i have had to go and knock off 2 houses(council) which had been over rendered using the scrim stuff and top coat,don't know which sort.they had blown of the substrate,so knocked off scrim stuff,then other old render,then re rendered.
i was talking to a old chap the other week about a load of over rendering they are doing up my way,sticking insulation over the old render,then rendering over with the scrim stuff,it looks a real good job,but the chap said "you watch,in 10years it will be blowing off like a old prostitute,becouse when water gets behind it,maybe a leaking roof,or gutter,it will soak the insulation,and eventually blow it".
going off what plasterers got taught at college years ago,off old timers,i kind of agree with this chap:RpS_thumbup:
but more work for plasterers in ten years(if not before)
Dirtybill
New Member
Just spent 3 months doing the above work, we were using swiss therm and Alumasc MR, the scrimming is a royal pain in the tits but the top coat and dash is shooty in, if done correctly and all stress areas are paid attention to then i dont see the problem plus im not sure how the water will get behind it as a leaky gutter will not affect it nor will a broken tile all the houses that get done with this usually have the roofs done at the same time giving the extra on the projection due to the boarding and all roofs now have an eaves protector installed.
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plasterjfe
Private Member
the problems you mention above do exist but because the system has not been fitted properly either because of budget or poor workmanship in these cases i agree the system could fail and cause problems thats why i hate all the undercutting in this field the simple of it is if you cut corners on these systems you risk all the failings possible than if a system is done properly.
the new stuff IMO is superior than the old but i dont agree with any old tom dik or harry "chucking it up" because they think they are a plasterer and its easy. if a good tradesmen with the correct level of training is installing then it will outlast most render. only these people should be fitting it.
Most big drylining firms are now pricing external thermal packages because the M/C cant be bothered the split the package some of them will sub let to a proper fitter but most will just chuck skimmers or any old pole outside to make more money. these firms have hardly ever come across it before:RpS_scared::RpS_scared: and this is where it all goes wrong, render reps hand out approvals to these lot because they have big credit limits and the contracts. it will prob come back and bite them on the ar5e one day but hey its all about the money.
plasterjfe
Private Member
i know it goes on i have seen all sorts on site.
its all about money in britain..... cheap is king weather it means poor quality or not because this is a nation who does not care about the proper things in life such as the quality of their buildings were more interested in celebrities and 50" plasma televisions
its all about money in britain..... cheap is king weather it means poor quality or not because this is a nation who does not care about the proper things in life such as the quality of their buildings were more interested in celebrities and 50" plasma televisions
Dirtybill
New Member
Never a truer word spoken, i have worked with men and fell out with them because of their lack of attention to detail it irritates the s**t out me when men cant keep their feet clean nor their aris and such like, streaight beading and clean corners are my main pick ups although with me the list seems endless at times:RpS_biggrin:
yep,totally agree with this,good post.there are a lot of bad workmen,and it will come back and bite them in the arse.
im not calling the new ways,the jobs look bloody awesome,and its a lot lot easier that nomal sand/cement. i find k rend a peice of piss,and looks the dogs balls:RpS_thumbup:
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