Skimming With Lime Plaster & Building Control

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keredewor

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What would you guys reccomend to re-skim existing Lime Plaster walls (Plaster is on Brick with Lime Mortar, cavity wall, stone outer skin), the Lime Plaster is unpainted and is in fairly good condition but it does need a re-skim, want the walls to remain breathable.

The area is about 200m2

thanx
 
Re: Re Skimming Lime Plaster

lime plaster there for a reason so skimming with multi or similar would defeat the object and could have bad knock on effects - skim it with lime plaster
 
Re: Re Skimming Lime Plaster

martinemj said:
use lime finish (2:1) silca sand/lime
Click to expand...

Thanks......I was really hoping to keep our daughters house original as possible, including the replastering with Izonil render and tarmac limelight and skimmimng existing with Lime plaster but then...........Building Control have stepped in..........I think I am in the madhouse.

Want to keep the house "Breathing"...MR BC, no chance mate, see that wall with no plaster on, wack 70mm insulation on it and skim it with Gypsum, fook your hippy ways....it s the law, to quote "L1 of building regs"

While your at it fill the cavity with insulation....

Twarts.......I will have to think this one through.....any ideas greatly appreciated (Sorry I can't contribute anything back other than updates of this saga)
 
aslong as you bring it back to its original you can tell the BCO to f**k off, pretty sure regs are for new builds or extensions. Now i might be wrong coz regs differ in different areas and U values are a pretty new thing, if this was the case they could call next door on your neighbours and ask him to do the same thing to his house.
 
Imagine if they done the same to all the old buildings in this country. Older buildings have to be refurbed using similar techneques. As it's a 1905 build I'm not sure if it's the same, but worth getting a second opinion. Mum done a garage conversion and had to dig a 1m trench to take a 2x2m wall including lintel. There was an exposed steel holding up 1st floor, so it's not as though I needed to go high.
 
in accordance with doc L1 (conservation of heat and power) there are two different sets of rules, 1 for newbuild and one for upgrades...
but these rules are not set in stone, the 'Law' states that if you lose heat through one part of the house e.g. a large window that doesnt conform to part L, then as long as you make up for it in another area then the effect is still the same over the whole building...
its not about jobsworth building inspectors enforcing a rule book, its about bringing the country in-line with the kyoto agreement by october 2010..
so in other words, if you want to keep your lime plaster, as long as you beef up the insulation in another area the building inspector cant do a thing about it...

an example...
build a conservatory on the back of your house and remove the old french doors so the conny becomes part of the house...
'BY LAW' your only 'allowed' to have up to 25% of your total floor area as glazed openings in the building...
opening the conny up to the house brings all that glass and poly into the equation...
the way round it is to insulate the walls and roof elswhere beyond what is already there i.e. you havent made it any worse...

if you can prove to the inspector maybe by working the heat loss calcs out as it is now, then with his spec on the wall, then with lime on the wall and insulation top up in the roof he should technically let you have it...
especially when you bring the breathability into the equation, theres documents for structural integrity, moisture control, fire safety, everything you could think of and it sounds like your gonna have to beat him at his own game..
 
Re: Skimming With Lime Plaster & Building Control

The regulations changed 1st October 2010.

Its Regulation L - Energy.

ANY property under refurbishment where greater than 25% of ANY existing wall covering (On any single wall) has been removed has then affected its U value, it then has to meet a U value in the new regs, in our case it amounts to > 70mm.

Would love to ignore them tell them to go forth and multiply but let's be realistic, you cannot beat them, they have to issue us with a final acceptanace of the house after refurb so it's "doff yer cap time"

I totally agree with conserving energy but this is crazy, we have spent 9 days clearing out the cavities to resolve damp and to be told that we have to insulate the cavities (we have no party wall seal so it would fill the fecking terrace) and to put 70mm insulated board on the brick wall and to then GYPSUM skim defeats trying to put the property back to original state

The regs for historic buildings allows replication to original,

Just wondered if anyone else had faced this problem,

THIS IS A HEADS UP for you guys as well, it might be a good ides to read the new regs...IMO

Thanx for the replies though
 
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we will of course manipulate the regs, your right, we have allready inceased the loft insulation to 300 from 270, I am going to have them come to the house to discuss rather than them making opions behind a desk, TBH they are usualy (where we live) resaonable and practical, it's not a cost issue its "keeping it as designed issue"

lime plaster/mortar = Breathable or CONDENSATION and DAMP
 
keredewor said:
The regulations changed 1st October 2010.

Its Regulation L - Energy.

ANY property under refurbishment where greater than 25% of ANY existing wall covering (On any single wall) has been removed has then affected its U value, it then has to meet a U value in the new regs
Click to expand...

nice one for the heads up though...

now I wonder how that will affect damp control companies hacking a room off 1m high...
normally its re-rendered with waterproof render and skimmed...
But now that would be in breach of building regulations so what they gonna do about that?
Now I'll bet every established damp proofing company in the land has recieved a 'heads up' concerning the new regs and there will be a plan of how to deal with it..
might be worth giving your local damp company a call and see what their take is on it..
 
interesting..
i didnt realise this all applied to any replastering work on an existing building, i thought it was for things like garage conversions, loft conversions, change of use etc...
minefield of red tape...
according to that thread the council enforced insulated render when the possibility of upgrading internally was mentioned as being more cost effective...
at the end of the day its about hitting that .35 target, and even then, does it still not have to be worked out over the entire house for a comlete assesment?
fries my f'ckin brain all this sh't..
::)
 
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tank it downstairs, skim it upstairs, but this product looks handy if you want to keep it traditional ;)
 
So according to this new reg if say in theory you have an old stone cottage and you wanted to expose some of the old stone work and have it as a feature wall just pointed in, it would effect the u values and wouldnt be able to do it?
 
Thanks for replying everyone..........Sorry to have opened a can of worms..........simply put, any specifier will also have to fully justify the specification for replastering.......old or new properties
 
Bod said:
So according to this new reg if say in theory you have an old stone cottage and you wanted to expose some of the old stone work and have it as a feature wall just pointed in, it would effect the u values and wouldnt be able to do it?
Click to expand...

As I understand it BC can only be involved if they have been informed............
 
no mate, if a job requires building control inspection, and you dont tell em you can either have it retro inspected (which usually means em ripping chunks out to see whats behind) or they can make you rip it all back to square one..
same with planning permission...
 
An update..........I must be the luckiest fella alive......I got a Building Control Officer that was (i) helpful (ii) listened (iii) was practical...... a rare beast indeed after discussing the interpretation of the regulations in relation to the required work/type of property he agreed that we were doing all we could to achieve the U values and that we had met the criteria of "Reasonably Practical".

End result, a compromise to meet the required U Values and new regulations, increased insulation in loft, between floor to ceiling joists, and ground floor joists, render where DPC has been installed with Izonyl to 20mm thick and over skim with limelite, cold faced external walls, batten and install insulated/vapur check plasterboard @ 38mm and overskim with gypsum, party walls, render with Izonyl and skim with Limelite, existing ceilings (Lathe and lime plaster removed) foil backed 12.5mm plasterboard and gypsum skim, any other "Cold Spots" insulated plasterboard, finally, overskim remaining lime plaster walls with Lime Plaster.

Out of interest to forum users I will post up some before and after pics and if anyone with similair issues wants to contact me feel free and I will help where I can.

Thanks for the input from everyone who contributed.
 
excellent stuff mate, brilliant example...
ill bet youre switched on attitude and willingness to work with building control had a lot to do with the bco's attitude...
personally i tend to find em helpful, odd one been a c'nt but if you look like youre doing your best they tend to be a bit less anal about the regs..
nice one, look forward to the next update... :RpS_thumbup:
 
spunky said:
is it single skin mate you mentioned them wanting to fill cavity walls
Click to expand...

Stone faced, cavity, lime mortar brick skin, cavities do not require insulation as "U" values have now been met through alternative means as far as reasonably practicable ;-)
 
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