tape and join is it really cheaper??????

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Curry

Curry

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ok some please explain why sites seem to think tape and joining is cheaper and faster. I just cant work it out.

the mud is expensive and it take ages, looks crap and its a right shite job to do.

whats going on?
 
down here all the sites do it and im doing some at the moment. Hate it! Covered in dust and all the time im thinking, surely this would be better and cheaper skimmed!
 
CurrierPlastering said:
does tony have a taping machine thingy and a vacum sander do u know?
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I have taping tools and a machine sander attached to a vacuum, yes. If taping and jointing is done correctly, and with attention to detail, it will make a nice job. It's never going to be as resilient as skim unless it is completed to a level 5 finish and sealed with something like Sheetrock Tuff-Hide. On houses, unless they are huge, I don't think taping is any quicker than skimming. It's the going over the same area 3 or 4 times that pisses me off. As for rates, on the big developments at the moment, the boys doing the taping are lucky to get £2 a metre supply & fix, with no extra for beads, and a pittance for applying drywall sealer. My taping rates start at £3 a metre, which may well be more than some guys are getting for skimming. I don't work on big sites because I'm not going to be exploited by the larger drylining and building contractors. Most of my work is for small builders and developers, and from recommendation, plus I get work through a couple of architects.
 
richardbrown said:
how did you get into it tony ?
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Initially learned my trade as a decorator/artexer, but was working for a shopfitters/ceiling & partitioning company back in the early 90's and was fed up with the standard of some of the jointing I was expected to work on, so started doing my own. It's not rocket science, is it?
 
if taping and jointings done right it is equal to a skim finish if not better imo
 
i bet your right grand..... what makes the tape start to bubble ??? On a few friends wimpy houses when the light is down the wall you can see every bit of tape almost as if its only paint covering it lol
 
richardbrown said:
i bet your right grand..... what makes the tape start to bubble ??? On a few friends wimpy houses when the light is down the wall you can see every bit of tape almost as if its only paint covering it lol
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Some tapers really piss their gear down for internal tapes and this weakens the bond. Also, not applying enough mud will cause tapes to blow. You will probably find that most Wimpey houses are only 2 coated because of low rates, so the job isn't being completed properly.
 
They give the tapers 2 days in their program to tape a house. You can't do it properly in 2 days.
 
Tony how long would it take to do 1 square room say 5x5 from start to finish, as in how many actual hours and how many days you'd have to go back
 
Surely these rates are subbed and subbed? To many fingers in the pie? Just trying to see if we could get one of these machines and under cut tape and joint and leave a better finish if you go in at the top of the food chain.

Return plaster finishes back at the top?

Tony M not saying anything against what you do but it seems alot of plasterers are right in the shite at the moment and looking for a way forward.
 
CurrierPlastering said:
Surely these rates are subbed and subbed? To many fingers in the pie? Just trying to see if we could get one of these machines and under cut tape and joint and leave a better finish if you go in at the top of the food chain.

Return plaster finishes back at the top?

Tony M not saying anything against what you do but it seems alot of plasterers are right in the shite at the moment and looking for a way forward.
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It's being able to get to the top of the food chain though, isn't it? Most large house builders want safety policies, umpteen houses turned out a week, no extras, and they don't want to pay you for up to 90 days. Do you really want that? It's not just plasterers that are in the s**t. It's people from all trades. I would imagine that a contractor that pays his tapers £2 a metre, is probably getting £3.50 - £4.00 tops. So you'd be looking at buying a Ritmo or similar for several grand, and competing at those rates? I think that your problem would come with providing a reliable labour force turning out consistent quality workmanship.
 
taping can be done to a high standard and will look good and yes it is chaper than plastering but like tony says you need big runs of work in front, no point in a room then you should just skim. imo i dont think houses shoukld be taped, I just know that when it took off and the ames bros were turning it huge it was seen as an ideal solution to industrial and commercial buildings such as warehouses, offices, cinemas etc and still is more common in these places still today but i recon house builders wanted it for cost and speed but i personally think a house should have the integrity of a full skim at the very least
 
beddy said:
Tony how long would it take to do 1 square room say 5x5 from start to finish, as in how many actual hours and how many days you'd have to go back
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To 3 coat, sand and apply drywall sealer, this is about a days work, BUT, it's 3 visits. This is why you would skim it, in one visit.
 
Dry wall began in the States i believe after WW2 but was probably in use before that, i aint been there for years but last time i was the standards were realy good and i think they had 3 levels of standards and the best was checked with lights to see see for shadows as for all kinds of finishing to get the best takes time so perhaps the Yanks were getting a good rate at the time.We just use it to keep semi skilled Poles in work
 
TonyM said:
It's being able to get to the top of the food chain though, isn't it? Most large house builders want safety policies, umpteen houses turned out a week, no extras, and they don't want to pay you for up to 90 days. Do you really want that? It's not just plasterers that are in the s**t. It's people from all trades. I would imagine that a contractor that pays his tapers £2 a metre, is probably getting £3.50 - £4.00 tops. So you'd be looking at buying a Ritmo or similar for several grand, and competing at those rates? I think that your problem would come with providing a reliable labour force turning out consistent quality workmanship.
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yep thats the idea it got to be better then tape and joining by hand and rubbing down by hand. Looked in to the tape and joinging sanderers and tape applicators but that setup is a couple of grand easy and you surely need them to make job worth while doing
 
Shopfitting, commercial then yes taping is cheaper and easier, we do a lot of work in outlet villages. Splitting larger shops up with 20m x4m full height fireline walls.
We can tape/joint 3 coats both sides in 1 day and the next day they can be sanded and painted. Normally just by 1 man.
It would take 2 or 3 spreads 1 day to skim both sides (2 gauges) but you would not be able to paint it for about 5 days.
The sanding is the degrading part, dusty etc.
Fast turnaround as no waiting for plaster to dry before painting.
I agree that homes or small areas should be skimmed.

In the old days (floating) . The decoration was left for upto 6 months, imagine that nowadays?

Ive seen taping done to a high standard but as mentioned here at the rates currently offered £2 per m its doubtfull anybody would want to do it right
 
if you have a decent run say 2 or 3 houses ready to go it is in my experience a lot quicker .But it's rare nowdays to get that . also you need all the tools i.e bazooka , box's , sander with vacuum .
 
i dont think tape and joint is much cheaper when half the boards are stuck aswell. that costs a lot compared to s+c and skim for example. but then its drying times...
 
5 days to dry? Skim never seems to take that long anymore. Also does tape
And joining need a sealant coat before painting right?
 
CurrierPlastering said:
5 days to dry? Skim never seems to take that long anymore. Also does tape
And joining need a sealant coat before painting right?
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I like to apply drywall sealer after sanding as it then looks 'finished.' The application of drywall sealer eliminates the need for a mist coat.
 
multi might not take that long to dry out anymore but you will still have resisual moisture between the skim coat and the substrate so its awlays best to leave it for a bit which is where tape and joint will always win
 
The problem i always noticed on sites with the tape and jointing was if say a ceiling or wall was left coz of say plumber or spark the whole process had to be done for just these bits, which meant the job always took longer. Also patching after certain trades with T&J always took longer. In my opinion skim is always better and the drying times never really came in to it if it was planned correctly, but then again when did you ever see a site planned correctly lol
 
if you want to get serious about drywall/taping look at this
Drywall Finishing Tools, Drywall Tools, Drywall Pumps, Drywall Texturing, Drywall Texture Sprayer

slikest method I have ever seen and friggen fast ...the system is a quite large upfront investment

depending on the job skimming is faster and better ....but why would the prices be even close for instance, here taping is about $3.60 /mtr which is something like 1.80 (pounds) ....now if by chance I get called for an interior plastering job ...which is a very rare animal here ...I would be at approx $40.00 /mtr (similiar to skimming ) approx 20 ( pounds )....we just finished an interior here where I was at $63 /mtr...and have one coming up at $125/mtr ( both venetian plasters )

plasterer makes $30 from me
lab makes $20
+ benefits
just divide by 2 for pounds ..( will be close enough)
 
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