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Spudknit said:
If we lose atleast we've been on a ride
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Kids Play GIF
 
stuart23 said:
You knew this was going to happen when you made them
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Stuart....

1) I don't particularly care about football - it's just a game and I don't take it seriously.

2) I don't take a nationalist stance about anything. Seriously, I view nationalism as quite.... well, I'll hold my tongue for the sake of diplomacy.

3) I admit that smoother made a rod for his back when he posted a few threads assuming it really was 'coming home' to England. Seriously, I get it - he did make himself open to people taking the piss by sticking his neck out with posts enthusiastically & optimistically predicting England would win. I get that.

4) However, I have noticed that Scotland and Wales have a big chip on their shoulder when it comes to the English (and please understand, I'm not taking sides - as I said, I don't give a hoot about nationalism, and I don't claim to be of one nationality or another). I am simply saying that I have noticed this kind of behaviour on many occasions during my lifetime, and every time I witness it, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

It saddens me to see this behaviour and it saddens me to see people stooping so low as to wish ill on the English (even if just in a sports contest <game>) by wishing they get beaten by other national teams. It's not what I call mature or classy behaviour.

If you look at typical reasons nationalists use to justify this kind of behaviour, they generally point the finger of blame at Westminster or at historical grievances. NEITHER of these has anything to do with 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of ordinary English people alive today.
 
MakeItSmooth said:
Stuart....

1) I don't particularly care about football - it's just a game and I don't take it seriously.

2) I don't take a nationalist stance about anything. Seriously, I view nationalism as quite.... well, I'll hold my tongue for the sake of diplomacy.

3) I admit that smoother made a rod for his back when he posted a few threads assuming it really was 'coming home' to England. Seriously, I get it - he did make himself open to people taking the piss by sticking his neck out with posts enthusiastically & optimistically predicting England would win. I get that.

4) However, I have noticed that Scotland and Wales have a big chip on their shoulder when it comes to the English (and please understand, I'm not taking sides - as I said, I don't give a hoot about nationalism, and I don't claim to be of one nationality or another). I am simply saying that I have noticed this kind of behaviour on many occasions during my lifetime, and every time I witness it, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

It saddens me to see this behaviour and it saddens me to see people stooping so low as to wish ill on the English (even if just in a sports contest <game>) by wishing they get beaten by other national teams. It's not what I call mature or classy behaviour.

If you look at typical reasons nationalists use to justify this kind of behaviour, they generally point the finger of blame at Westminster or at historical grievances. NEITHER of these has anything to do with 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of ordinary English people alive today.
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I’m fine with most of the English mate, when he was making all those threads up I thought I’m keeping them alive to remind him so every wee while I’m going to bump them.
 
stuart23 said:
I’m fine with most of the English mate, when he was making all those threads up I thought I’m keeping them alive to remind him so every wee while I’m going to bump them.
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OK. I'll give you a nod for that, but I think I recall you talking about supporting other teams (Denmark, etc.,) who were opponents of England during the tournament.

I'm not looking for an argument - far from it. I'm just giving you a friendly nudge and drawing your attention to the fact that it doesn't speak well of nations lifke the Scottish and the Welsh when they hold petty grudges and act them out, and, as I said before, I've witnessed that kind of behaviour MANY times (a frankly depressing number of times, actually) during my lifetime.

That's all. (y)
 
MakeItSmooth said:
Stuart....

1) I don't particularly care about football - it's just a game and I don't take it seriously.

2) I don't take a nationalist stance about anything. Seriously, I view nationalism as quite.... well, I'll hold my tongue for the sake of diplomacy.

3) I admit that smoother made a rod for his back when he posted a few threads assuming it really was 'coming home' to England. Seriously, I get it - he did make himself open to people taking the piss by sticking his neck out with posts enthusiastically & optimistically predicting England would win. I get that.

4) However, I have noticed that Scotland and Wales have a big chip on their shoulder when it comes to the English (and please understand, I'm not taking sides - as I said, I don't give a hoot about nationalism, and I don't claim to be of one nationality or another). I am simply saying that I have noticed this kind of behaviour on many occasions during my lifetime, and every time I witness it, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

It saddens me to see this behaviour and it saddens me to see people stooping so low as to wish ill on the English (even if just in a sports contest <game>) by wishing they get beaten by other national teams. It's not what I call mature or classy behaviour.

If you look at typical reasons nationalists use to justify this kind of behaviour, they generally point the finger of blame at Westminster or at historical grievances. NEITHER of these has anything to do with 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of English people alive today.
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That was the closing statement for the defence.
The prosecution will now give their statement.
"M'lud, members of the jury, the man is a c**t. The prosecutions rests m'lud.
 
paulf said:
That was the closing statement for the defence.
The prosecution will now give their statement.
"M'lud, members of the jury, the man is a c**t. The prosecutions rests m'lud.
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Nope.

I'm not defending smoother on this topic - I'm just pointing out that the petty grudge / chip on shoulder behaviour quite often seen from the Welsh and the Scottish whenever sporting tournaments provide them with an assumed sense of 'legitimacy' doesn't paint them in a good light. I wish they could see how it looks to people witnessing it. It doesn't look good, at all.

I'm saying that completely calmly, and without an axe to grind.

I don't have an axe to grind on this. All I'm saying is I've witnessed it many times and every single time, I have found it to be sad and embarrassing behaviour.

Both nations are better than such petty behaviour and it's long overdue that they woke up to it.
 
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MakeItSmooth said:
OK. I'll give you a nod for that, but I think I recall you talking about supporting other teams (Denmark, etc.,) who were opponents of England during the tournament.

I'm not looking for an argument - far from it. I'm just giving you a friendly nudge and drawing your attention to the fact that it doesn't speak well of nations lifke the Scottish and the Welsh when they hold petty grudges and act them out, and, as I said before, I've witnessed that kind of behaviour MANY times (a frankly depressing number of times, actually) during my lifetime.

That's all. (y)
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You know yourself mate the Scottish English grudge goes back a long way. What about the abuse I take on here on a daily basis for being Scottish is that ok but it’s not ok to support another team against England?
 
stuart23 said:
You know yourself mate the Scottish English grudge goes back a long way. What about the abuse I take on here on a daily basis for being Scottish is that ok but it’s not ok to support another team against England?
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It's difficult, on a plasterers' forum, of all places, to know where the banter ends and the deeper stuff begins (there is some occasional bullying on TPF - we all know it's true, but there's also a lot of banter and plasterers and builders are notorious for it, regardless of their nationality).

Historical grudges put to one side for a second, I reckon there's a typical type of social humour in the UK, whereby one group grows up accustomed to bantering with others from other groups (not just the 4 nations but even neighbouring counties within a same nation). Even without them necessarily straying into nationalism, it's a characteristic of Scottish, Irish, English, and Welsh, in my experience.

But you've admitted that the Scottish-English grudge goes back a long way - that's really my point - it's mostly (I mean really mostly) historical, and as for Westminster trying to control distant lands such as Scotland, well, that's not the common Englishman's fault. An ordinary 21st century English national has absolutely no responsibility for what happened a century or more ago, and absolutely no responsibility for what a few power-hungry arseholes try to do to control neighbouring nations. If you want to hold a grudge, then I'd suggest aiming at those responsible, rather than a majority who are innocent as charged.
 
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MakeItSmooth said:
Nope.

I'm not defending smoother on this topic - I'm just pointing out that the petty grudge / chip on shoulder behaviour quite often seen from the Welsh and the Scottish whenever sporting tournaments provide them with an assumed sense of 'legitimacy' doesn't paint them in a good light. I wish they could see how it looks to people witnessing it. It doesn't look good, at all.

I'm saying that completely calmly, and without an axe to grind.

I don't have an axe to grind on this. All I'm saying is I've witnessed it many times and every single time, I have found it to be sad and embarrassing behaviour.

Both nations are better than such petty behaviour and it's long overdue that they woke up to it.
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That's lot of words, for a lighthearted comment. I'm guessing your not a fan of nationalism for the most part.
 
paulf said:
That's lot of words, for a lighthearted comment. I'm guessing your not a fan of nationalism for the most part.
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I'm just not a fan of people blaming each other (mostly) for things their ancestors did or things a tiny minority of their nation may currently be doing.

Personally, I like Scottish, Irish, Welsh and English people, equally and I wish they'd do the same, taking each individual as they find them, but I know we don't live in a perfect world. (y)
 
MakeItSmooth said:
Stuart....

1) I don't particularly care about football - it's just a game and I don't take it seriously.

2) I don't take a nationalist stance about anything. Seriously, I view nationalism as quite.... well, I'll hold my tongue for the sake of diplomacy.

3) I admit that smoother made a rod for his back when he posted a few threads assuming it really was 'coming home' to England. Seriously, I get it - he did make himself open to people taking the piss by sticking his neck out with posts enthusiastically & optimistically predicting England would win. I get that.

4) However, I have noticed that Scotland and Wales have a big chip on their shoulder when it comes to the English (and please understand, I'm not taking sides - as I said, I don't give a hoot about nationalism, and I don't claim to be of one nationality or another). I am simply saying that I have noticed this kind of behaviour on many occasions during my lifetime, and every time I witness it, it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

It saddens me to see this behaviour and it saddens me to see people stooping so low as to wish ill on the English (even if just in a sports contest <game>) by wishing they get beaten by other national teams. It's not what I call mature or classy behaviour.

If you look at typical reasons nationalists use to justify this kind of behaviour, they generally point the finger of blame at Westminster or at historical grievances. NEITHER of these has anything to do with 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of ordinary English people alive today.
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I think you look into things to deep!
Chill bro!
 
smoother09 said:
I think you look into things to deep!
Chill bro!
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I'm very chilled and relaxed.

Remember - I said I have no axe to grind.

Go back and re-read any of what I've just typed - you'll see there's no anger in any of it.

I'm just having a relaxed conversation, nothing more. :coffe:
 
MakeItSmooth said:
I'm very chilled and relaxed.

Remember - I said I have no axe to grind.

Go back and re-read any of what I've just typed - you'll see there's no anger in any of it.

I'm just having a relaxed conversation, nothing more. :coffe:
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Wasn't implying you way angry maybe just over think how you think other people think thus making you think that they think what you think they think
That's all.
 
smoother09 said:
Wasn't implying you way angry maybe just over think how you think other people think thus making you think that they think what you think they think
That's all.
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Understood, but sometimes it's OK to calmly chat about something without feeling awkward that you're being too serious.
Sometimes being calmly serious is OK and valid.
 
MakeItSmooth said:
It's difficult, on a plasterers' forum, of all places, to know where the banter ends and the deeper stuff begins (there is some occasional bullying on TPF - we all know it's true, but there's also a lot of banter and plasterers and builders are notorious for it, regardless of their nationality).

Historical grudges put to one side for a second, I reckon there's a typical type of social humour in the UK, whereby one group grows up accustomed to bantering with others from other groups (not just the 4 nations but even neighbouring counties within a same nation). Even without them necessarily straying into nationalism, it's a characteristic of Scottish, Irish, English, and Welsh, in my experience.

But you've admitted that the Scottish-English grudge goes back a long way - that's really my point - it's mostly (I mean really mostly) historical, and as for Westminster trying to control distant lands such as Scotland, well, that's not the common Englishman's fault. An ordinary 21st century English national has absolutely no responsibility for what happened a century or more ago, and absolutely no responsibility for what a few power-hungry arseholes try to do to control neighbouring nations. If you want to hold a grudge, then I'd suggest aiming at those responsible, rather than a majority who are innocent as charged.
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My point is that yes the Scottish Irish and Welsh have banter with the English but the English give it out just as bad if not worse than us so who’s at fault?
 
stuart23 said:
My point is that yes the Scottish Irish and Welsh have banter with the English but the English give it out just as bad if not worse than us so who’s at fault?
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Point taken, but I began this conversation mainly pointing towards Scottish and Welsh sports fans making a very definite point of supporting any team that opposes England.

That's not a crime, but it runs quite a bit deeper than casual banter between nations. It's quite negative and it happens a lot.
 
MakeItSmooth said:
I'm just not a fan of people blaming each other (mostly) for things their ancestors did or things a tiny minority of their nation may currently be doing.

Personally, I like Scottish, Irish, Welsh and English people, equally and I wish they'd do the same, taking each individual as they find them, but I know we don't live in a perfect world. (y)
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Unfortunately we have the what about this or that culture, but we shouldn't let c**ts get away with s**t just because it's looks like you're attacking "my tribe"
 
MakeItSmooth said:
Point taken, but I began this conversation mainly pointing towards Scottish and Welsh sports fans making a very definite point of supporting any team that opposes England.

That's not a crime, but it runs quite a bit deeper than casual banter between nations. It's quite negative and it happens a lot.
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There’s an arrogance surrounding England and there fans, constantly looking down there noses at other nations giving it the biggun so yes, we do take great joy when that arrogance is shattered. If as a nation yous were more humble then I honestly do think the other nations would get behind you more.
 
MakeItSmooth said:
It's difficult, on a plasterers' forum, of all places, to know where the banter ends and the deeper stuff begins (there is some occasional bullying on TPF - we all know it's true, but there's also a lot of banter and plasterers and builders are notorious for it, regardless of their nationality).

Historical grudges put to one side for a second, I reckon there's a typical type of social humour in the UK, whereby one group grows up accustomed to bantering with others from other groups (not just the 4 nations but even neighbouring counties within a same nation). Even without them necessarily straying into nationalism, it's a characteristic of Scottish, Irish, English, and Welsh, in my experience.

But you've admitted that the Scottish-English grudge goes back a long way - that's really my point - it's mostly (I mean really mostly) historical, and as for Westminster trying to control distant lands such as Scotland, well, that's not the common Englishman's fault. An ordinary 21st century English national has absolutely no responsibility for what happened a century or more ago, and absolutely no responsibility for what a few power-hungry arseholes try to do to control neighbouring nations. If you want to hold a grudge, then I'd suggest aiming at those responsible, rather than a majority who are innocent as charged.
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To be fair it’s the people who chooses who leads us and dictates our ways as a nation. Look at terrorism, western people don’t understand why bombs go off and kill “civilians” around the world. We are all to blame for our governments actions.

in relation to Scotland they just want their independence.
 
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