Phenolic boards- opinions please !

[mnkymartin]

Hi guys, what's your opinion on phenolic board ?
Ive been using them on my last couple of jobs for my private customers, but I was speaking to somebody the other day and he said they tend to keep clear from them as they warp quite a lot once they get damp (before application)
Im not to bothered about the extra cost of them as I price it in to the job anyway, but would be interested to hear other people's thoughts on these boards, thanks.

 

[plasterjfe]

Been covered in another thread mate. I avoid also
Not all the issues are known yet but soon will be. Unfortunately lots already on buildings

 

[22jasper]

Not had a problem to date, but we do use a lot of heavy render over them. We have used thin coat over them for years and no issues yet.

I did hear from a tech rep, that a batch from Kingspan was dodgy from a manufacturing perspective, but this had been rectified a long time ago - could now just be rumour mongering from this!

 

[tiger33]

avoid if you can,i know of a job with 110 houses that all the edges have gone like toast and its showing threw the texture

 

[22jasper]

avoid if you can,i know of a job with 110 houses that all the edges have gone like toast and its showing threw the texture

Mineral wool and EPS suffer from perimeter of the board showing as well, its not just a phenolic issue, in some cases I just think they have been poorly installed ie not rasped and too thin on the base coats

 

[plasterjfe]

Not had a problem to date, but we do use a lot of heavy render over them. We have used thin coat over them for years and no issues yet.

I did hear from a tech rep, that a batch from Kingspan was dodgy from a manufacturing perspective, but this had been rectified a long time ago - could now just be rumour mongering from this!

No rumors mate, its under wraps at the mo but inspections are being done ongoing. Not all works will be affected obviousley but the inspections I have been on show worrying signs. I think the lad on about toast edges there is a different issue to edges showing through as what can happen with all boards I think he is reffering to the gasses breaking sown in the phenolic and the board itself shrinking considerably in size.

 

[22jasper]

No rumors mate, its under wraps at the mo but inspections are being done ongoing. Not all works will be affected obviousley but the inspections I have been on show worrying signs. I think the lad on about toast edges there is a different issue to edges showing through as what can happen with all boards I think he is reffering to the gasses breaking sown in the phenolic and the board itself shrinking considerably in size.

With Kingspan having the majority of the UK phenolic market, I would suspect they will do their utmost to limit their liability and again throw it back to the subby

 

[plasterjfe]

With Kingspan having the majority of the UK phenolic market, I would suspect they will do their utmost to limit their liability and again throw it back to the subby

What I expect to happen is some serious research whole the whole thing is kept quiet and then when reasons are established changes in the product and then everyrhing carry on as normal......thats how big boys work I guess.

I know some manufacturers wont spec it and I heard at one point jusy recently that one contractor was refused sale of k5 because of panic. I think thats sorted now tho but he was told that k5 is not suitable at that point in time.

From what I can gather it seems its unstable. Thats only my assumption and for the good of the forum and anyone reading please take it as my personal assumptions and also expect most of these post to be deleted once the conversation is over

 

[goody]

All swanseas council houses are covered in it. Some go back to early 90's and still seem sound. I take it their thermal performance won't be what it was when it was fitted due to depletion of argon to air(or whatever the gas is) therefore becoming more like eps at that thickness?

 

[plasterjfe]

I was told back in the day that once covered with render and not exposed it is ok and I have to admit I aint actually seen boards that are covered that have been later removed to show any signs of that but the jobs I have seen are recently fitted so prob not enough time to say. Thats not the only issue tho. We weren't looking at or for depletion

 

[Rigsby]

I have two render suppliers that will not entertain phenolic boards. One gave the reason being of an issue with the paper failing. If they supply then they warrant it. They are just being careful and not wanting liability.

 

[plasterjfe]

I have never seen an issue with that membrane coming off but some contractors have complained about the adhesion only being as good as that fibre paper as it effectively stuck on in production and not part of the insulation product through solid.

 

[22jasper]

I have never seen an issue with that membrane coming off but some contractors have complained about the adhesion only being as good as that fibre paper as it effectively stuck on in production and not part of the insulation product through solid.

A while back we did a full refit of a water damaged system involving full replacement of a phenolic system and the system took off showed no sign of degradation or delamination