Aero-Therm Interior energy reflective products

zolco said:
C'mon flynny lighten up, this is an insulation we talking about not a finish. Massive difference between the two. I understand that someone has to push the boat onto the water but ffs
Ordinary insulation remains efficient for the life of the building -from celotex website
Stay professional for goodness sake, I only raise valid points not saying to stock it at Argos with a notched trowel and sanding pad
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Does Phenolic stay efficient? This is a product widely used but not guaranteed by many manufacturers.
 
Rossi46 said:
I'm just quoting the sales pitch. I know it would be done a room at a time. Read through and it's been said a 310m2 house could be done in 2-3 days. Maybe, if nobody lived there and there were no furniture and carpets etc.
Realistically you have to ask yourself that based on doing one room at a time on 2 days minimum labour, plus materials, then how much would a whole house cost to do.
That's my argument.
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The property we are quoting for isn't lived in - they are going through a full re-furb were they had big damp issues. This has been treated and Aero-Therm is going over the top.
Its being machine applied through the EZE 24.

Agreed, if it was occupied this would take longer
 
bobby said:
I'm just picturing the look on Mrs smiths face
'Yes we can skim your bedroom for £400 madam.although let me give you a price for a new insulated plaster that's just come out.
It will keep the heat in the room for you keeping your heating bills low.
We can do this for £3500 plus vat!!!!
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You sell the same pitch for an IWI or EWI system - this is far less disruptive to the home owner.
 
Morning All,

Here is some information for you. As mentioned in the TZUS Test Certs there were daily energy savings of up-to 18%

Aero-Therm Interior energy reflective products
Aero-Therm Interior energy reflective products

Aero-Therm Interior energy reflective products
Aero-Therm Interior energy reflective products
 
Plasterers1StopShop said:
You sell the same pitch for an IWI or EWI system - this is far less disruptive to the home owner.
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We do alot of IWI and it's not that disruptive, generally...batten over existing plaster, then fix thermaline plus 27mm plasterboards. The main negative is the customer loses around 50mm. Labour wise it takes us a day to batten, board and skim the wall. Got to be honest all of the walls I have come across have damp issues, not damp with pressure but minor damp caused by condensation, penetration...

The problem with this system in my opinion is it goes directly onto the wall, they are talking in the video about doing humidity tests, checking the wall for damp etc, getting heaters in if a problem etc...the reality is on every job I've done the wall/room humidity would fail the test. This product could not be applied to a damp wall as you would never get to sand it back. You would need to batten and board before applying, then you might as well use insulated board. IMO insulation on solid walls should not be fixed directly to the wall for fear of damp problems.

Maybe this system would work where someone simply wants to warm up a room, and where there are no issues currently with damp/humidity. Problem is most people come to you not first because of the cold, but because of the condensation problems.

Good luck with it though good to see things moving forward, I'd like to see a super thin EWI board like 20mm which as good an insulator as the 100mm boards.
 
FreeD said:
We do alot of IWI and it's not that disruptive, generally...batten over existing plaster, then fix thermaline plus 27mm plasterboards. The main negative is the customer loses around 50mm. Labour wise it takes us a day to batten, board and skim the wall. Got to be honest all of the walls I have come across have damp issues, not damp with pressure but minor damp caused by condensation, penetration...

The problem with this system in my opinion is it goes directly onto the wall, they are talking in the video about doing humidity tests, checking the wall for damp etc, getting heaters in if a problem etc...the reality is on every job I've done the wall/room humidity would fail the test. This product could not be applied to a damp wall as you would never get to sand it back. You would need to batten and board before applying, then you might as well use insulated board. IMO insulation on solid walls should not be fixed directly to the wall for fear of damp problems.

Maybe this system would work where someone simply wants to warm up a room, and where there are no issues currently with damp/humidity. Problem is most people come to you not first because of the cold, but because of the condensation problems.

Good luck with it though good to see things moving forward, I'd like to see a super thin EWI board like 20mm which as good an insulator as the 100mm boards.
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Thanks for the comments mate. I will speak with Aero-Therm and see their official response to this.

A super thin EWI board would be awesome. Relates to another post on the forum about window reveals as well - surprised there isn't anything yet
 
Plasterers1StopShop said:
Thanks for the comments mate. I will speak with Aero-Therm and see their official response to this.

A super thin EWI board would be awesome. Relates to another post on the forum about window reveals as well - surprised there isn't anything yet
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Plasterers1StopShop said:
Thanks for the comments mate. I will speak with Aero-Therm and see their official response to this.

A super thin EWI board would be awesome. Relates to another post on the forum about window reveals as well - surprised there isn't anything yet
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Properties in the uk are a nightmare to treat, it's good to have lots of options.
 
Plasterers1StopShop said:
U Values measure the speed that conducted energy is lost through and object

Aero-Therm doesn't work in the same way, it reflects energy from the radiated energy wavelengths back into the occupied room space.

It doesn't work like a conventional Insulation system, so can't use the same mathematical equations.

If you could even it out, it would work the same out as a 120mm Mineral wool system which gives roughly .3 - This has been given to us by Aero-Therm
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Thanks for the post & your interest in AeroTherm. Official co-heating tests have proven that the product can save up to 35% energy in a property. This is a similar energy saving to your traditional IWI/EWI systems. The training courses provide you with a background to the product, how it works and why it works differently to normal insulation.
 
Fatarm said:
So can you skim over this stuff ryan and it still does its magic?
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When AeroTherm is applied to a wall, you instantly turn a cold wall into a warm wall. Yes, it suddenly feels warm to touch. This is because it is absorbing radiant energy and then reflecting it back into the room. When you touch it, it absorbs the warmth/ energy from your hand and reflects it back. When you add a covering (such as paint/ wallpaper) it creates a very slightly delay in the radiant energy being reflected back. If you skim over it, again it still reflects back and in fact creates a heat sync with the plaster, but you will lose the very quick warm to touch feeling. So, yes, it still works, however if wall damage is not a key concern, then we would recommend painting the surface. I have AeroTherm in my home and much prefer a painted finish, accepting the fact that it may from time to time be damaged, but it is easily filled and repaired. It's all about personal choices/ preferences.
 
Plasterers1StopShop said:
No, there will be a network of dealers of the product, myself in Cheltenham, our branch in Cornwall, GoldTrowel in Manchester and Aero-Therm themselves will have some direct accounts. I am launching it for ourself and building our range of applicators
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We have a number of other dealers for the product, targeting different market sectors and in different parts of the UK. The selling prices are consistent across the board, so I'd recommend working with your local dealer - they can train you and provide you with support and leads etc...
 
Arti said:
Trialed something similar back in 2007. It' was basically towelling up polystyrene balls in a paste. Bit of a faff trying to rule it flat. Then skimmed it. Never heard of it since. Was deemed "The Future" like garlic bread

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AeroTherm contains tiny glass microspheres. They are designed to reflect radiant energy at certain wavelengths. They first absorb energy (warm up), and because they have a low thermal capacity (ability to retain heat), they reflect it back. Think of it as a combination of a heat absorbent sponge and a reflective foil. However, a surface covering does not impact the reflection, as the reflection is coming from within the product itself. Tests have shown that it needs to be a min of 0.8mm to reflect properly. Optimum thickness is therefore 1mm. It is combined with aerogel - to create a product that provides some protection again heat transfer through conduction, but primarily it works by reflecting radiant energy.
 
keithuk said:
so is it for external walls only ?
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AeroTherm can be used on walls and ceilings. The best financial return and impact will be from coating external walls as these are the coldest. If your ceilings are insulated above, then you may decide not to apply to ceilings. This is a good solution for sloping ceilings that don't have insulation above them for example. Some customers have decided to do their internal walls as well, particularly if they are cold. This then helps to reflect radiant energy off all the walls in the room.
 
Jurek said:
has it got any bba recognition etc. didnt bother reading the blurb. a mm is nothing. if you put two mm on would it be twice as good. is this something from europe ?
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Thanks for your questions. To respond -
  • The product is currently going through a process to be incorporated within the SAP database that underpins the EPC certificates. The BRE have reviewed the product certification that the product has from Europe and have confirmed that nothing further is needed to sell this product in the UK. The test certification is internationally applicable.
  • 2mm would not give double the performance. It would improve its R value x 2, but that is not how it really works. It works by reflecting radiant energy, which all happens when the product is at least 0.8mm - so 1mm is the recommended thickness to be safe.
  • The product comes from the Czech Republic - a country far ahead of the UK in its knowledge of reflective products
  • The product's proposition is that it is typically half the installed cost of IWI/EWI, saves up to 35% energy and creates more comfortable living spaces. It doesn't change external appearance of your property and you don't lose space. For many people, the opportunity to create thermal comfort and addresses condensation/ mould with only a 1mm coating is of great value.
 
I bet the training is done in the south like all other companies ffs

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zolco said:
this product and it`s literature is controversial as anything, in one section it states you can`t use it if there`s a chance of future rising damp, in another section states that its breathable, so it can be used on walls that are susceptible to damp. So which one is the true now then?
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If a walls suffers from water ingress (e.g. leaking roof creating wet walls) then the AeroTherm is at risk of falling off the wall. I believe this is the case with plaster - but you will all know better than me! AeroTherm cannot fix a wet wall - the source of the problem needs to be fixed. However, by applying AeroTherm, the dew point is pushed back into the wall and a warm surface is created. When applying AeroTherm the moisture reading in the wall needs to be taken and it needs to be below a certain level before it can be applied. This is all covered in the training course.
 
Plasterers1StopShop said:
Lots of home owners are already going for it. It certainly has its place in the market.

I will double check if it will be classed as an insulation upgrade and let you know
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As per comments on #190, AeroTherm are working with various bodies to achieve an energy rating accepted in the UK for SAP. This will give it the ability to count towards an insulation upgrade for buildings regulations. At the moment we don't have this, but are confident we are going in the right direction to achieve it! The UK Construction Industry doesn't take well to new products/technology as I'm sure you all know. For now, its a retrofit product for those wanting to keep warm!
 
Plasterers1StopShop said:
It's fairly even in comparison to costs with a EWI system. These were also hard to sell at the start.

Once you read into the benefits and facts then the benefits and cost saving can be seen
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Our research suggests that EWI systems cost £90/m2+. The end price for AeroTherm very much depends upon the intallers cost and margin. We have installers who have sold this on for as little as £35/m2, so when we say £45/m2 + we are trying to make this attractive to the installers!
 
If someone has Ewi and would like to add aero therm for extra heat retention would this still be possible as the heat is pushed back into the property by the insulation board , but would then the back of the aero therm push the heat back out to the insulation board causing a heat tennis as such? @aerothermproducts


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zolco said:
That's great if you see market for it flynny, I'm not debating it's functionality it seems a great product which been used in clothing for years, I'm questioning the costs involved for a short period of life expectancy. Also not sure that how it pans out for epc certification and surveys for selling a house for example. As no-one mentioned what happens in 15 years time is it gonna crumble down or just gonna still stick to the wall like s**t to a blanket, what warranties implied and what if the u value won't change after installation, is the surveyed independent or company backed, who's paying for labour if the gear don't work etc? From a marketing leaflet these things not clarified it's all in the small print I take it. I understand people trying to sell stuff but this is turning into another stilts saga.
Still if you knock out 40m at 75quid a meter is 3k not include 're-decorating don't think that's a good value for money.
I'm not being sceptical just going after the numbers, people these days want numbers not promises and ifs and buts.
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The product comes with a 15 year manufacturer's warranty which states that the product will continue to reflect energy for 15 years. The product was only invented in 2009, so no-0ne has had it on their walls for 15+ years yet. However, www.synpo.cz have produced a report that states that there is no reason for the product not to reflect energy for 25 years - i.e. there is no reason for it to decay. The manufacturer has stuck with 15 years out of simple prudence - in essence the product is simple and will continue to reflect energy. If anyone wants a visible reference - you will have to wait 15 years post installations in the UK!
 
AeroTherm Products said:
The product comes with a 15 year manufacturer's warranty which states that the product will continue to reflect energy for 15 years. The product was only invented in 2009, so no-0ne has had it on their walls for 15+ years yet. However, www.synpo.cz have produced a report that states that there is no reason for the product not to reflect energy for 25 years - i.e. there is no reason for it to decay. The manufacturer has stuck with 15 years out of simple prudence - in essence the product is simple and will continue to reflect energy. If anyone wants a visible reference - you will have to wait 15 years post installations in the UK!
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Hi mate thanks for the reply, just to update you and Ryan on things just been to discuss a job for a client of mine who would like to get their flat roof kitchen ceiling insulated as when the previous owner built it left the insulation out, so I recommended you guys, it's just under a 60sqm to be done, when I said about the cost and the product and the 13% saving on heating, they decided to strip the flat roof and redo from there so there's no disruption in their life and they get a new roof and 200mm insulation which will cost more but will save more on the long run. To point out they are well off money not an problem ever for them but they wouldn't commit to a job on them prices for very little improvement. I agree you could have a great product there, but cost is always a factor. As well as training goes application looks straight forward you can see it on the videos shared on the forum unsure what else you can train on to apply with a notched trowel or hvlp sprayer or roller then trowel up then sand.
When your prices will reflect the efficiency of the product you will may have a fighting chance to flog it.
Good luck on your venture!
 
themucky1 said:
If someone has Ewi and would like to add aero therm for extra heat retention would this still be possible as the heat is pushed back into the property by the insulation board , but would then the back of the aero therm push the heat back out to the insulation board causing a heat tennis as such? @aerothermproducts


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AeroTherm works by reflecting radiant energy back into the room. So the more radiant energy in the room, the warmer the room will be. Radiant energy comes from people, light bulbs, the sun coming through the window, underfloor heating (more than radiators), heating stoves, cookers etc...
EWI works by slowing down the conduction of heat - so arguably the two together would be great.
Clearly cost is an issue - not many people would have both. The official tests (see certificates shown above) are based on two test houses built specifically to test AeroTherm (one treated with, one without)
Aero-Therm Interior energy reflective products


Interestingly, the test houses were built to current European standards (walls have a U value of c.0.25 - so well insulated before they began). The energy savings noted above were therefore achieved in a well insulated property. Hope this helps explain a bit further...
 
This is an interesting and useful article Link Removed
It shows that you cannot just measure thermal comfort by air temperature. You need to consider other factors, including radiant temperature - which is where AeroTherm comes in - it improves radiant temperature in a room (by reflecting radiant energy).

Link Removed
 
AeroTherm Products said:
AeroTherm works by reflecting radiant energy back into the room. So the more radiant energy in the room, the warmer the room will be. Radiant energy comes from people, light bulbs, the sun coming through the window, underfloor heating (more than radiators), heating stoves, cookers etc...
EWI works by slowing down the conduction of heat - so arguably the two together would be great.
Clearly cost is an issue - not many people would have both. The official tests (see certificates shown above) are based on two test houses built specifically to test AeroTherm (one treated with, one without)
View attachment 9502

Interestingly, the test houses were built to current European standards (walls have a U value of c.0.25 - so well insulated before they began). The energy savings noted above were therefore achieved in a well insulated property. Hope this helps explain a bit further...
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Sorry ATP, looking through your numbers you say standard insulated build with U value of .25 when in actual fact an insulated 100mm cavity would typically expect a value in the region of .6 , maybe a typo or something but throws numbers somewhat. Have taken my numbers from sustainable energy Ireland.

Further in Ireland our regs. demand a wall must achieve a value of 1.1, and this is a long way short of best practice.

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AeroTherm Products said:
AeroTherm contains tiny glass microspheres. They are designed to reflect radiant energy at certain wavelengths. They first absorb energy (warm up), and because they have a low thermal capacity (ability to retain heat), they reflect it back. Think of it as a combination of a heat absorbent sponge and a reflective foil. However, a surface covering does not impact the reflection, as the reflection is coming from within the product itself. Tests have shown that it needs to be a min of 0.8mm to reflect properly. Optimum thickness is therefore 1mm. It is combined with aerogel - to create a product that provides some protection again heat transfer through conduction, but primarily it works by reflecting radiant energy.
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Do you rate this product? same technology...but being a paint I'm assuming (unless it's thick) it goes on at under 0.8mm

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paddy5 said:
Sorry ATP, looking through your numbers you say standard insulated build with U value of .25 when in actual fact an insulated 100mm cavity would typically expect a value in the region of .6 , maybe a typo or something but throws numbers somewhat. Have taken my numbers from sustainable energy Ireland.

Further in Ireland our regs. demand a wall must achieve a value of 1.1, and this is a long way short of best practice.

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To clarify, the U value of 0.25 is the U value of the test property walls (see photo in #202). They were built to standard Czech construction requirements. AeroTherm was then added to one of these properties (improving thermal performance) and not to the other. The point I am making here is that AeroTherm saved the stated energy levels when applied to an already well insulated building.
 
  • FreeD said:
    Do you rate this product? same technology...but being a paint I'm assuming (unless it's thick) it goes on at under 0.8mm

    Link Removed
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    The differences between this paint product and AeroTherm are -
    • AeroTherm's testing has showed that to refract and then reflect radiant energy wavelengths, the minimum thickness required is 0.8mm. The paints with glass microspheres are clearly less than 0.8mm, but we cannot comment on the energy savings these products achieve. We can only point to our test accreditation providing evidence on energy savings using AeroTherm at 1mm.
    • AeroTherm includes aerogel (one of the world's best insulants) as well as glass microspheres. We are not aware of a paint glass microsphere product that also includes aerogel.
 
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