Another non paying plonker

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No harm done lads we were having a laugh then I took my daughter out for the day and came back to notifications etc of a fight being organised for something I wasn't aware of?? I like @Pug as he says it like it is. Don't get me wrong if you were arranging a scrap between me and that RWF w**k*r I'd be more than up for it lol
 
imago said:
You can run a business for years without making a profit, but a problem with cash flow can take you down in three months.

As for the non/late payers, use a contract. It'll take you a few minutes to a couple of hours to set up the template. Once that's done you're sorted. For all the work I do I give them a quote in writing, once that's accepted I add the dates and payment schedule to it. Before the job starts they get two copies of the full quote and a copy of the terms and conditions. If I don't have my signed copy in my hand the day I rock up to start I don't start.

The first thing that does is weed out chancers, if they're not prepared to sign the contract then I have no intention of working for them. The second thing it does is demonstrate my honest intent in that it shows exactly what I will be doing and how much it will cost them. The third (and arguably most important) thing it does is completely remove any doubts or uncertainty should things go tits up.

So for example, the payment schedule on a larger job like an extension is 30% when we start work, 30% when the groundworks and drainage are complete, and 30% when the building is complete with walls, roof plastering etc. That allows the customer to keep 10% until they have BC sign off and snagging is done.

In the terms and conditions it states "all payments to be made within 7 days of invoicing". That obviously helps by ensuring they and I know when the money's due. However it has another less obvious benefit in that if I don't get the money for two weeks after invoice they are in breach of contract. I wouldn't make a fuss over a delay like that, but it does mean that I own them from that point on as the contract has been rendered invalid by them. It's never come to it, but from a legal standpoint that sort of thing can save your business.

Bit of a long post, but it's an important and often overlooked aspect to running a business.

Of course if everyone was honest and above board with everyone else it wouldn't be necessary. Sadly that's not the case.
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It's understandable having contracts to be signed for works for many thousands of pounds. I'll just look like a tit if I ask a builder to sign on the dotted line to skim a kitchen he's fitting.
 
theclemo said:
Did you get your money.
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Rang today he said will pay in full when done which will be Wednesday afternoon..couldn't get there today.
@imago got a great bit of advise there on payments only problem is it all changed on the first day I got there on this job.I would /should of sorted extra work and materials in writing but truth is when working every day most of my money agreements are made and change verbally everyday ..most people are good with this and this particular dude I think feels it's right to hold out until all is complete even if it is a ridiculous little patch
Another job last Thursday and Friday was £### and he paid while I was driving home which restores faith in people.

One man band doing job and quoting on others after working day it is I find sometimes impossible to have everything in writing all the time but agree it does take out all the doubt.
 
theplasterman said:
One man band doing job and quoting on others after working day it is I find sometimes impossible to have everything in writing all the time but agree it does take out all the doubt.
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I do understand what you and @GrantyBoy are saying, however when you take into account the amount of time and 4rse ache you can spend phoning and chasing I don't reckon it takes anymore time than you're already spending.

As for jobs changing, then that's exactly the circumstance when a contract is most valid. It doesn't matter if it's a builder or direct to the customer.

I'm absolutely not having a go at you or anyone else, but you can't be surprised when things go wobbly if you haven't got even the most basic list agreed in writing? The simple fact of the matter is that if you have nothing in writing, and then make matters worse by getting paid in cash, neither side can prove a damn thing. If that's the way you prefer working then that's fine, but under those circumstances you need to take the other approach to debt recovery and be prepared to slap the snot out of someone every now and then.

I'm getting too long in the tooth and too much of a Bhuddist to carry on like that over money. So for me, legal and above board every time.

It takes two minutes to print out the work and materials that you'd need to list to price the job anyway. Print out a basic T&C document. Turn up, "Sign there." crack on with the work. If they don't want to sign or 'go through that hassle' you have to ask if you should be working for them at all.

The first job @Nisus did for me I asked for written quote and replied by email agreeing to it. I offered him trade and contractor references. We've never done that since, and it's never been a problem, but the point is the quoting and expectations were set out on day one. Since then the relationship is very simple. I tell him what I needs done, he tells me how much it'll cost, he does it, then I pay him the agreed amount. (Obviously we also rip the p1ss as much as possible during the job). The same is true for the job @Olican did, and will also be true for anyone else I work with.
 
f**k**g hell marshy is it Lancashire or gangstershire!lol on the serious side though mate I'm the same,we work hard for our coin.
 
Everyone operates different I guess, I rarely would ask for stage payments, just on completion.
Most individuals/outfits are sound enough, just the odd one that grates.
 
On big jobs that will take me over 3 weeks to complete I ask for stage payments and I don't see why that should be a problem. If customer says it's a problem or they have an issue I don't do the job simple. I get pissed off working paying for the lad plus materials plus stuff at home and not get a penny till the job is finished?? f**k that s**t
 
Marshy said:
I couldn't cope with that mate I really couldn't. Especially if the job is finished.
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I know its a t**t sum times longest we have gone without payment was 4 months,bastards dint tell us b4 we started aswell there said its was 42 days which turned into 4 months had £1000s in materials aswell as wages for a couple of lads who helped us do job..job were doing at min is averaging month to month so not 2 bad as registered as ltd company so just pay oursens a wage every week to tie us over.
 
Kitchy said:
I know its a t**t sum times longest we have gone without payment was 4 months,bastards dint tell us b4 we started aswell there said its was 42 days which turned into 4 months had £1000s in materials aswell as wages for a couple of lads who helped us do job..job were doing at min is averaging month to month so not 2 bad as registered as ltd company so just pay oursens a wage every week to tie us over.
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It's s**t like this that ruins sole traders or small companies it f**k**g winds me up
 
Marshy said:
It's s**t like this that ruins sole traders or small companies it f**k**g winds me up
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Ur rite marshy and there dnt give a toss..ull find bigger the company's the harder It Is to get paid even if invoice is f**k all there will hold ur money till there cant anymore..makes u laugh as this company was worth millions and wen I looked onto company's house website it has cash assets of over £800,000 or sumat and there were dragging there heels in paying us about £6000
 
Kitchy said:
Ur rite marshy and there dnt give a toss..ull find bigger the company's the harder It Is to get paid even if invoice is f**k all there will hold ur money till there cant anymore..makes u laugh as this company was worth millions and wen I looked onto company's house website it has cash assets of over £800,000 or sumat and there were dragging there heels in paying us about £6000
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It's not on pal it's shite to be messed about at paying up time!!! Especially when you have to pay the lad/lads plus all your overheads not to mention the missus and kids at home etc. That's why I get pissed off when I'm not paid on time.
 
I did a refurb job on a private school staff room about 4 years back. Usual business as described above, quote, contract, signed by the head etc. Come the end of the job I submitted the invoice, didn't hear anything for a week, called in to do a polite reminder. The bursar came strutting out (little fat self important c**t) and says "Our payment terms are strictly 90 days."

I pointed out mine were payment on completion, signed and agreed by the head, and as I hadn't seen let alone signed theirs mine formed the contract. I pointed out that they were in breach of the contract and they had 10 days as a final reminder period. They still didn't pay.

On day 11 I filled in the online form at money claim online and submitted all my paperwork. One week later I had a cheque from the school inc costs. So I had to wait an extra three weeks for payment, but without the contract I'd have had to wait to start chasing for three months plus the fcuk about time.

No contract, no work. :estudioso:
 
imago said:
I did a refurb job on a private school staff room about 4 years back. Usual business as described above, quote, contract, signed by the head etc. Come the end of the job I submitted the invoice, didn't hear anything for a week, called in to do a polite reminder. The bursar came strutting out (little fat self important c**t) and says "Our payment terms are strictly 90 days."

I pointed out mine were payment on completion, signed and agreed by the head, and as I hadn't seen let alone signed theirs mine formed the contract. I pointed out that they were in breach of the contract and they had 10 days as a final reminder period. They still didn't pay.

On day 11 I filled in the online form at money claim online and submitted all my paperwork. One week later I had a cheque from the school inc costs. So I had to wait an extra three weeks for payment, but without the contract I'd have had to wait to start chasing for three months plus the fcuk about time.

No contract, no work. :estudioso:
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To be fair mate your a builder most of your jobs are not a couple of days like most of us (not talking about you site lads) even extensions are not much over a week depending on spec etc??
But I find it very very irritating when you have finished a job and then it's the circus of f**k**g about to get paid. I only work for certain people/builders who know to pay me on completion plus private work are told before I start I need paying as soon as the jobs finished and they are happy with the work (obviously )
 
imago said:
You can run a business for years without making a profit, but a problem with cash flow can take you down in three months.

As for the non/late payers, use a contract. It'll take you a few minutes to a couple of hours to set up the template. Once that's done you're sorted. For all the work I do I give them a quote in writing, once that's accepted I add the dates and payment schedule to it. Before the job starts they get two copies of the full quote and a copy of the terms and conditions. If I don't have my signed copy in my hand the day I rock up to start I don't start.

The first thing that does is weed out chancers, if they're not prepared to sign the contract then I have no intention of working for them. The second thing it does is demonstrate my honest intent in that it shows exactly what I will be doing and how much it will cost them. The third (and arguably most important) thing it does is completely remove any doubts or uncertainty should things go tits up.

So for example, the payment schedule on a larger job like an extension is 30% when we start work, 30% when the groundworks and drainage are complete, and 30% when the building is complete with walls, roof plastering etc. That allows the customer to keep 10% until they have BC sign off and snagging is done.

In the terms and conditions it states "all payments to be made within 7 days of invoicing". That obviously helps by ensuring they and I know when the money's due. However it has another less obvious benefit in that if I don't get the money for two weeks after invoice they are in breach of contract. I wouldn't make a fuss over a delay like that, but it does mean that I own them from that point on as the contract has been rendered invalid by them. It's never come to it, but from a legal standpoint that sort of thing can save your business.

Bit of a long post, but it's an important and often overlooked aspect to running a business.

Of course if everyone was honest and above board with everyone else it wouldn't be necessary. Sadly that's not the case.
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Exactly what I did after I had to wait for 7 months . Had to pay with my own money and the bill of 13k+ got paid at stages. Went to consult my self with solicitors , credit control etc. Got a solid contract now. I leave 20% for final payment after completion . If I have the slightliest doubt I give them the solicitors talk, paid hefty price for it, and if they are overdue with 1 day I start sending reminders, this by the way counts in court. For the last 2 years I had only one delay of 4 days.
 
Marshy said:
To be fair mate your a builder most of your jobs are not a couple of days like most of us (not talking about you site lads) even extensions are not much over a week depending on spec etc??
But I find it very very irritating when you have finished a job and then it's the circus of f**k**g about to get paid. I only work for certain people/builders who know to pay me on completion plus private work are told before I start I need paying as soon as the jobs finished and they are happy with the work (obviously )
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I know what you mean, and it is awkward. What's the answer though? Not everyone is willing or able to take the forthright approach, no one wants to get messed about or ripped off, and the legal approach is a long winded pain.

It can't be right for self employed people to have to accept they may/will get messed around for money.
 
I guess it depends on your judgement of character etc or maybe sheer bad luck.
I have been told that they hav nt got all my dosh cos they paid the Sparks bla bla or some bill and feel somehow easy telling me this, I also understand s**t happens sometimes but this lapse will only last a day or two.
After all I have completed my side of the arrangement it's not unreasonable to be paid by the terms agreed verbal or in email or typed quote.
The big players or old school stinking rich are generally the worst "oh put it on my account"!!! "Errrrr you don't have one" cants!!!!!
Always get paid .
"Do the right thing" generally works although I do remember standing on someone's drive many moons ago with a sledgehammer and a couple of lads similarly kitted out to receive final payment on an extension, guy suddenly found his Cheque book whilst mumbling about misunderstandings fkin twerp.
 
kylethetile said:
Go get ur f**k**g shine box
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Another non paying plonker
 
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