Asbestos in Artex (info)

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clinton78

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Hi gents

Moving in to new house soon. Most walls and ceilings are covered in Artex (Council) so I'm going to be re-skimming. Now the kitchen has it on the walls and it looks as though the guy has just been smeering the crap up the walls with his bare hands. Raises up to about 20mm in some places so will have to scrape off high areas first. Now theres a possibility that this Artex has been on there for over 25 years. Do I need to worry about Asbestos in the Artex and if so what can I do about it? Do the council have to have it tested and sort it for me?

Clint
 
theres been a lot of debate on this but the question i have always asked and never been answered, if there is the deadly type of asbestos in artex why are the old artexers dying of it.
 
It takes 20 -30 years to kick in...they will,like the old plumbers and electricians before them.
Dont take chances with your life,life is short enough.
Big push on Asbestos awarness around my way now,on the radio,TV,im getting leaflets from goverment and independent removal firms on a daily basis.
I think its like any cancer some people seem to be more suseptible,my grandad smoked 30 fags a day and drank like a fish and lived till he was 86 but my Gran never drank smoked and ate well etc died of cancer at 52.
Also when you bring the dust down in peoples houses you could be giving it to them too !!!!! Lawsuit ???
 
HHMMMMMMmmmm! I need to get this addressed really don't I? There is hell of a lot of it nearly every flat surface is artex.
 
Yes mate you do.
It wont go away.
Get it all tested to make sure and carry on if u get all clear.
Its not a short term killer its a long term, apparently your lungs fill with liquid and you slowly drowned to death in the later stages,its a horrible painfull incuracable death.I really dont understand why anyone in there right mind would take the risk????????
 
Yeah I've done an asbestos course a while back. Can take up to 40 years to grow inside you and kill, it's a living organism apparently? They still mine it in Russia :o Gonna get in contact tomorrow and get it sorted. Thanks for your advice.

Clint
 
Did you also know that you can carry and pass it on to those at home... when your wife washes your work clothes for example or irons.


Theres a gag in there............... ;D
 
theres is quite a bit on it on the hse website, artex removal isnt covered by the same guidelines as other types of asbestos containing materials (ceiling tiles, fire protection ect) as you dont need to be licensed to remove/work with it if there was a really danger from it the hse would have it included and it would be illegal for an unlicensed person to touch it

if your really worried steam it off then there will be no fibers in the air and use a half mask typ respirator with changable filters
 
PhilPlaster said:
Did you also know that you can carry and pass it on to those at home... when your wife washes your work clothes for example or irons.


Theres a gag in there............... ;D

/quote]

I heard that the other day that a lot of the people with it now got it from there father off his cloths. scarry , i did a fair bit of artexing around 87 was that the good stuff by then or bad.
 
I aint going near it mate steaming or not! Gonna have my wife and unborn child in the house not taking no risks the council are just going to have to sort it out.
 
simplybesty said:
PhilPlaster said:
Did you also know that you can carry and pass it on to those at home... when your wife washes your work clothes for example or irons.


Theres a gag in there............... ;D

/quote]

I heard that the other day that a lot of the people with it now got it from there father off his cloths. scarry , i did a fair bit of artexing around 87 was that the good stuff by then or bad.
think its use in artex was stopped about 1985
 
clinton78 said:
I aint going near it mate steaming or not! Gonna have my wife and unborn child in the house not taking no risks the council are just going to have to sort it out.

the council? i wouldnt hold your breath and thats not a gagg.
 
Asbestos in Domestic Properties Textured
Decorative Coatings (TDCs) (such as Artex)
What are Textured Decorative Coatings (TDCs) and where are they found?
TDCs are the textured decorative plasters (Artex being one of the most common) and are mostly
found on ceilings and walls of domestic properties decorated in the 1950s – 1980s. Until
approximately 1984, TDCs could contain very small quantities (around 2%) of white asbestos
fibres. Even before this date, however, most textured plasters were not asbestos containing.
Are there any health risks associated with TDCs?
Due to a misunderstanding with the authorities, TDCs have been classed as asbestos containing
coatings as they were confused with Limpet products (100% asbestos fibres sprayed onto
support beams in buildings as fire insulation). There is, however, no measurable risk to health
from the asbestos content in TDCs.
Do you need to remove TDCs from your property by law?
There is no measurable risk to your health from the asbestos content in TDCs and any contractor
who tries to force you to remove them based on this is trying to exploit your ignorance. There is
no law demanding that you remove the TDCs from your property either, if you had no plans on
removing them.
If you are selling your house, can your property become devalued if TDCs are present?
A common scam if you are selling your house is for a surveyor to suggest you need to remove
your TDCs; threatening you with devaluation of your property if you fail to comply.
You are under NO legal obligation to remove TDCs from your ceilings or walls, and anyone
threatening to devalue your property under the pretext of the new buyer having to remove the
TDCs once they move in is fraud. The prospective buyer of your property will not be under any
legal obligation to remove them either.
Does the presence of TDCs in a house you are about to buy condemn it?
Any surveyor condemning a house you are intending to purchase because of the presence of
TDCs is providing you with incorrect information. Neither the current homeowner nor you are
under any legal obligation to remove the TDCs.
The presence of TDCs in good condition should not reduce the property’s value or pose any
measurable risk to health; the best thing you can do is to leave them alone. If you strongly dislike
the décor, however, and wish to change it the best cause of action is to plaster over it for a
fraction of the cost of expensive removal.
If you want your TDCs removed for other reasons, do you need a specially licensed
contractor?
TDCs have recently been taken out of the licensing regulations and are now no longer licensable
materials. Whereas previously TDCs required licensed asbestos contractors to remove them,
now the work can be carried out by any trained and competent contractor using the proper
controls. We suggest ringing round a few local contractors for quotes. This will be cheaper than
unnecessarily hiring a specially licensed asbestos contractor, but be thorough when deciding if
you really want this work done and wary when employing contractors; make sure you get a range
of quotes to compare rates.
If you have been told you have ‘trace’ levels of asbestos in your TDCs, what does it mean?
Due to the difficulty in finding asbestos content when TDC samples are studied, many
laboratories cover their results by declaring ‘may contain trace levels of asbestos’. This normally
means 0% asbestos content. If your report comes back with only ‘trace’ levels of asbestos found,
it normally indicates there wasn’t any there in the first place; you can then make decisions on
your next steps accordingly.
If you have TDC ceilings or walls, can you use power tools on them?
The asbestos content (if any) in TDCs is minimal and poses no measurable risk to health. Adding
light fittings, picture hooks, or similar, by drilling or making holes, poses no measurable risk to
health.
If you do this work yourself it is advisable to damp down surfaces before drilling or making holes,
and wearing a mask to prevent inhalation of any dust in general.
The use of power tools such as sanders, or abrasive scrapers, on TDCs, however, is not advised.
Power sanders create large volumes of dust (irrespective of any potential asbestos content) and
should not be used on asbestos containing materials. Don’t forget ALL forms of respirable dust
can be harmful.
 
Well they are gonna have to because i'm not living in a house for the foreseeable future not being able to even drill holes to put up a shelf. The place is covered in it. Pissed off now!
 
clinton78 said:
Well they are gonna have to because i'm not living in a house for the foreseeable future not being able to even drill holes to put up a shelf. The place is covered in it. (french word)ed off now!

if you cant put up a shelf how the f**k are you gonna plaster it?
 
flynnyman said:
clinton78 said:
Well they are gonna have to because i'm not living in a house for the foreseeable future not being able to even drill holes to put up a shelf. The place is covered in it. (french word)ed off now!

if you cant put up a shelf how the (french word) are you gonna plaster it?

;D
 
napper83 said:
theres is quite a bit on it on the hse website, artex removal isnt covered by the same guidelines as other types of asbestos containing materials (ceiling tiles, fire protection ect) as you dont need to be licensed to remove/work with it if there was a really danger from it the hse would have it included and it would be illegal for an unlicensed person to touch it

if your really worried steam it off then there will be no fibers in the air and use a half mask typ respirator with changable filters

The insurance companies we work for through a builder won't let us touch any artex it has to be licensed contractors.
Unless the asbestos test is negative.

There's plenty of info out there clint look on hse website etc..
But first thing you need to do is get a test done on it my mate pays around £19 a test he sends it off.


https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/guidance/a29.pdf
 
Has made me feel slightly better Nisus. It seems that Councils are able to get the HSE to change their rules on asbestos. ::)
 
To save any scraping at all,
if the textured coating on ceilings & walls is not to thick you could give them a coat of bonding & then skim.
Or you can overboard the ceilings & tight dab over the Walls.
You could even build a false ceiling with 4x2's below the old one then board & skim,
bit extreme though.
 
False ceiling sounds ok could stick some downlighters in whilst i'm there. It has some serious high bits on kitchen walls deffo has to be scraped about 20mm high! Think I'm just gonna go for it, wet it down first perhaps. I'll have to wait and see after moving.

Cheers for comments gents.
 
If Walls allow it & you don't really want to scrape them,
you could always build a stud wall say 2x2 even 2x1 then fix to wall with dabbing, gripfill whatever really,
once set put a few screws/nails through into wall here & there just to mechanically secure framework,
then screw new boards over this & skim.
Or just dab straight over then mechanically fix then skim.
Or build out with bonding then skim.
Up to you mate.
;D
 
Right just got off the phone to the previous owners. They did all of the Artexing themselves about beginning of 1990 so I could be safe 'ish'? I would expect the artex to be asbestos clear by this point?
 
I do alot of work for a company that specialize in asbestos removal and we cant start a job until the say its all clear then when we were waiting one day got chatting to the bloke doing the testing and he told me there is asbestos in artex but its a non threatening type its harmless there are apparently different types and all artex has they harmlees one so its just a blag so you should be fine.
 
I have also read that the UK is one of the only countries that has seperate catogories for asbestos (Brown, Blue, White,) with Blue being the most harmful (i think) and white the least. All asbestos is dangerous and if any of them gets into your lungs they all equally do the same damage but it is based on how the different types and the shapes of their fibres and how easily or difficult these shapes get lodged the deepest in the lungs. With White asbestos the fibres are curly so more difficult to get stuck deeper in the lungs so have more chance of getting coughed or breathed back out again. The Blue is a very fine straight fibre so when breathed can go straight to the deepest parts of you lung, get lodged continue to grow and cause cancer. So this asbestos guy was talking a load of s**t really and he should have known better.

Just seems strange that all of a sudden with having to test all of the council owned properties for asbestos which would possibly bankrupt them because of the shear magnitude of the costs involved. HSE decide well actually the white isn't that bad for you really and anyone can remove it as long as they wear a mask, disp overalls etc. All council properties are mostly covered in artex because of the cheapness and problem solving properties (hides all manner of bodge jobs on walls and ceilings) It's very easy to blame someone's asbestosis that's killing them on another source than from scraping the artex from a council properties walls.
 
There are loads of differing opinions asbestos removal companies will use scare tactics to gain more work/costs councils will gloss over any risks to save themselves a few pennies. From info i have found about encapsulating or removing artex i wouldn't go to the expense of a licensed removal firm id crack on with the steamer or bonding or overboard
 
Clinton. Your local council have been good enough to GIVE you a house
that needs some plastering done. Do I need to say anymore?
 
Unfortunately the council house is not free and rent has to be paid on it. I also over the coming months will be putting in a lot of time and money to turn there sub standard (and I can assure you not very nice on the inside) house into a f**k**g palace. At the end of the day Irish Plasterer Councils are c**ts and they GIVE many more houses to immigrants and scag heads who will just ruin them, than tax paying people like myself. I am not disputing this anyway I was simply worried about the massive amounts of possibly killer artex smoothered over the walls and ceilings and whether me scraping it off would ultimately be sending myself, wife, and new born child to a premature grave. Can you blame me? So just to keep you happy I promise that once the snow has melted and I can get out of my road I shall bake a giant thank you cake with cherries on top and personally present it to the council housing officer for being such a generous and kind guy. Ok?
 
Sorry to hear its not up to the standard you require Clinton. I had to BUY my house on the open market
from a private non immigrant seeing as you mentioned this. In 1965 Redbbridge council gave the then
owners a grant to do some work on it.I had to remove the asbestos they used. I dont want a cake thank
you
 
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