Builders moaning about EWI

europa said:
No, they did not provide a broken-down quotation. Said it was too time consuming, and i didn't push for it. I have to be careful about withdrawing work or cancelling the contract. Aside from the fact i have already paid them more than the value of the work they have completed thusfar, they also have contractual rights.
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But you said it's in the schedule of works and surely there quote would be based on this?

I'd just cut your loss and tell them your happy to sever ties. I think you'd lose less than if they carried on and they probably think Christ thank god we got rid of them they were hard work (not saying you are).
I bet you could list more of there f**k ups if you thought about it.
 
I think the problem is between your architect and the builders. No communication and decisions taken on the move . You should have serious talk with your architect . The contract should cover every single detail, phase and timing to avoid any confusion and misunderstanding .
 
Most of the time on loft conversions the architect does the drawings and 9 times out of 10 he is not an architect he just does drawings, so I doubt he is involved but sounds good on paper. You have got a price for job from start to finish and it included EWI but the price of it was never mentioned. To take it off the price of the job from a new form pricing it will take up half of the original price oh whole job. You are a bit ficked coz you have paid the majority of the job not realising this par is expensive. I beg my squat they will f**k you off and call their losses. Excuse my language but you won't getting this job finished and it will end in tears :(
 
europa said:
A) most likely. I had a quotation ages ago from a proper EWI company for 10k, albeit incl scaffolding etc. No wonder they are trying to avoid it! Problem now is i worry they are going to screw it up, hence why i'm trying to educate myself.
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You are asking all these questions and you know the answer already. The company that were going to charge 10K are bang on, that's how much it's going to cost you. Possibly alot more if you have to get it done twice.
 
Best thing to do now is speak to your builders be up front and say look I think it's best to get someone in who knows what they are doing, negotiate a discount off the price and then get someone in who knows what they are doing.
 
flynnyman said:
Most of the time on loft conversions the architect does the drawings and 9 times out of 10 he is not an architect he just does drawings, so I doubt he is involved but sounds good on paper. You have got a price for job from start to finish and it included EWI but the price of it was never mentioned. To take it off the price of the job from a new form pricing it will take up half of the original price oh whole job. You are a bit ficked coz you have paid the majority of the job not realising this par is expensive. I beg my squat they will f**k you off and call their losses. Excuse my language but you won't getting this job finished and it will end in tears :(
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He new the price he already had a separate price for 10K.
 
FreeD said:
This could be another case of the customer trying to squeeze the trade
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Not at all. I've paid everything they've asked thus far, given them additional work (for which i'm paying a premium), and put up with a lot of crap from them. If they underpriced the job to start with, that's not my problem and they cannot expect any favours from me now. Of course i knew it is an expensive job, but i put the same project out to tender and got four fairly similar quotations.

I had a pretty good meeting with them this morning, and we are trying to resolve things amicably.
 
You never see this sort of thing on grand designs...............
As has been said before, this is going to get messy........
Use @vfr12 , and take note of @flynnyman's comment
@FreeD has it right on his quote.......professionals are expensive, chancers even more so
I would bet that as has already been said, if you offer to sever contact, these will jump at it....
All the best with this one.
 
FreeD said:
This could be another case of the customer trying to squeeze the trade
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Not the case I am afraid. The guy is genuine and know what is doing. The problem is the builders have understood that the EWI will bury them and that's hanging like stone around the neck. They have came up with ideas I never heard off or never thought of. Asking the customer how and what says it all tbh. The job is no different than most of the houses done with ewi , but when you don't now how and realise in the final stage of the job , that you are f**k*d, of course you will look for any excuse and way to get out.
 
A simple case of get the job, the deposit will pay to finish the last job and worry about it towards the end ;) see it all the time.
 
I don't understand how the job went out to tender and quotes all roughly the same, no way would they all miss it.
 
flynnyman said:
Most of the time on loft conversions the architect does the drawings and 9 times out of 10 he is not an architect he just does drawings, so I doubt he is involved but sounds good on paper. You have got a price for job from start to finish and it included EWI but the price of it was never mentioned. To take it off the price of the job from a new form pricing it will take up half of the original price oh whole job. You are a bit ficked coz you have paid the majority of the job not realising this par is expensive. I beg my squat they will f**k you off and call their losses. Excuse my language but you won't getting this job finished and it will end in tears :(
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if he/she is just doing the drawings that's a draftsman, an architect usually designs and or specifies for a draftsman to follow.
 
stuart23 said:
I don't understand how the job went out to tender and quotes all roughly the same, no way would they all miss it.
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Just shows how many people are jumping into the unknown, I have never seen so much crap external works as I have in the last few years
 
stiltwalker said:
Just shows how many people are jumping into the unknown, I have never seen so much crap external works as I have in the last few years
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we see loads particularly poorly fitted ewi jobs, keeps us in work I guess. we get called to rectify quite a few, for a few different manufactorers.
 
europa said:
Not at all. I've paid everything they've asked thus far, given them additional work (for which i'm paying a premium), and put up with a lot of crap from them. If they underpriced the job to start with, that's not my problem and they cannot expect any favours from me now. Of course i knew it is an expensive job, but i put the same project out to tender and got four fairly similar quotations.
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Well whatever way you look sounds like they ain't the right guys to do the job, so you have no choice but to get and pay someone who knows what they are doing. Jobs like this should be done on stage payments so you should be in a position to withhold payment if not you have a problem.

Good luck with it anyway, lets us know the outcome.
 
owls said:
we see loads particularly poorly fitted ewi jobs, keeps us in work I guess. we get called to rectify quite a few, for a few different manufactorers.
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I personally have not done any but have seen a job completed and after two weeks you can see every single board, It looks horrendous
 
owls said:
if he/she is just doing the drawings that's a draftsman, an architect usually designs and or specifies for a draftsman to follow.
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I know the difference but most clients don't and most people who do drawings for loft conversions or extensions refer to themselves as architects.
 
Sorry, been crazily busy and i am not particularly good at multitasking. Apart from all the building headaches, now my architect is feeling the heat and wants out! Where do i find these people? LOL

After threatening that the contract isn't valid and saying they told me they wouldn't do the EWI in the first place [big lie!], builders have calmed down and are actually making a half-decent effort to educate themselves now. I guess they realised that asking me how to do it was not going to help the situation. They have abandoned the idea of doing it on the fly and will just prepare everything like overhangs, sills etc. so that it can be done at the end. They are also looking into what products to use and will even consider subbing it out! At least they are now being honest and admitted they didn't budget for it. End of the day, i want it done properly and do not want to squeeze them; so i told them i will pay more for a proper job. I'll just have to negotiate that bit later on.

Apart from extended roof overhangs and sills, is there anything else that, ideally, should be done at the build stage to make the EWI process more efficient? Are window frames typically brought a bit forward?
 
europa said:
Sorry, been crazily busy and i am not particularly good at multitasking. Apart from all the building headaches, now my architect is feeling the heat and wants out! Where do i find these people? LOL

After threatening that the contract isn't valid and saying they told me they wouldn't do the EWI in the first place [big lie!], builders have calmed down and are actually making a half-decent effort to educate themselves now. I guess they realised that asking me how to do it was not going to help the situation. They have abandoned the idea of doing it on the fly and will just prepare everything like overhangs, sills etc. so that it can be done at the end. They are also looking into what products to use and will even consider subbing it out! At least they are now being honest and admitted they didn't budget for it. End of the day, i want it done properly and do not want to squeeze them; so i told them i will pay more for a proper job. I'll just have to negotiate that bit later on.

Apart from extended roof overhangs and sills, is there anything else that, ideally, should be done at the build stage to make the EWI process more efficient? Are window frames typically brought a bit forward?
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The prep work with the over hangs etc is where the difference between a good job and a bad one lies.

If your going to pay them extra your best best is to get an agreed amount off them and then use that and the extra to get a proper firm to do it.
They haven't allowed for it so will cut all the corners they can and save as much as they can.
 
europa said:
Sorry, been crazily busy and i am not particularly good at multitasking. Apart from all the building headaches, now my architect is feeling the heat and wants out! Where do i find these people? LOL

After threatening that the contract isn't valid and saying they told me they wouldn't do the EWI in the first place [big lie!], builders have calmed down and are actually making a half-decent effort to educate themselves now. I guess they realised that asking me how to do it was not going to help the situation. They have abandoned the idea of doing it on the fly and will just prepare everything like overhangs, sills etc. so that it can be done at the end. They are also looking into what products to use and will even consider subbing it out! At least they are now being honest and admitted they didn't budget for it. End of the day, i want it done properly and do not want to squeeze them; so i told them i will pay more for a proper job. I'll just have to negotiate that bit later on.

Apart from extended roof overhangs and sills, is there anything else that, ideally, should be done at the build stage to make the EWI process more efficient? Are window frames typically brought a bit forward?
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roof ridges will need verge trims if not overhung. cills extended to a min 30mm over hang soil stacks plumbing etc extended.
that is all i would let your builder do.
 
europa said:
Sorry, been crazily busy and i am not particularly good at multitasking. Apart from all the building headaches, now my architect is feeling the heat and wants out! Where do i find these people? LOL

After threatening that the contract isn't valid and saying they told me they wouldn't do the EWI in the first place [big lie!], builders have calmed down and are actually making a half-decent effort to educate themselves now. I guess they realised that asking me how to do it was not going to help the situation. They have abandoned the idea of doing it on the fly and will just prepare everything like overhangs, sills etc. so that it can be done at the end. They are also looking into what products to use and will even consider subbing it out! At least they are now being honest and admitted they didn't budget for it. End of the day, i want it done properly and do not want to squeeze them; so i told them i will pay more for a proper job. I'll just have to negotiate that bit later on.

Apart from extended roof overhangs and sills, is there anything else that, ideally, should be done at the build stage to make the EWI process more efficient? Are window frames typically brought a bit forward?
Click to expand...

If you can't insulate the reveals e.g because of depth restrictions. Then bringing the window frames forward and insulation upto them would be ideal. Some use thinner insulating on reveals.
 
I'd inly let your builders extend water pipes soil stacks ect as if they install base track verge trim and full system stops this could be potentially a grey area should the system deteriorate quicker due to water ingress let the installers do everything


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