external insulation. why

[hail hail]

Have only did this twice on a day rate for a guy who had the license for it but wanting to buy the materials and do it on my own house in the country.

Its a 2400sqft with large windows and the majority of the insulation would be in the 2 gables. One thing about getting your hands on the stuff to complete it, well let's just say its difficult because any supplier I phone, they won't sell it to me without the permit/ license to do it. That wouldn't be to bad if it was just a few hundred but the cost runs into the 1000s.

Scratching my head as to why they wouldn't sell it to someone who's compenate to do so without needing a license. I totally understand why when a contractor does it that he's to guarantee it if if ever fails but to stop us all using it is just ridiculous!

Is this the same in the UK?

 

[Vincey]

Have only did this twice on a day rate for a guy who had the license for it but wanting to buy the materials and do it on my own house in the country.

Its a 2400sqft with large windows and the majority of the insulation would be in the 2 gables. One thing about getting your hands on the stuff to complete it, well let's just say its difficult because any supplier I phone, they won't sell it to me without the permit/ license to do it. That wouldn't be to bad if it was just a few hundred but the cost runs into the 1000s.

Scratching my head as to why they wouldn't sell it to someone who's compenate to do so without needing a license. I totally understand why when a contractor does it that he's to guarantee it if if ever fails but to stop us all using it is just ridiculous!

Is this the same in the UK?

Think it's like that so the manufactures of the product know that it is going to be installed correctly.like you say there is a cost laid out and if it fails someone is going to want to blame someone.

 

[hail hail]

P

Think it's like that so the manufactures of the product know that it is going to be installed correctly.like you say there is a cost laid out and if it fails someone is going to want to blame someone.

But common sense tells you its going to be the one who installed it. Its like getting someone to float the house in S&C, you ain't going to phone the sand and cement companies blaming them.

 

[BigK]

Doing it this way also guarantee's more profit as they bring the stuff into the country, they can charge a set amount, and also charge for training.
The cost of the materials is strongly guided by the grants that are available in my experience.
I don't rate it myself, far better ways of insulating a property at less expense


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[Vincey]

P


But common sense tells you its going to be the one who installed it. Its like getting someone to float the house in S&C, you ain't going to phone the sand and cement companies blaming them.

Fair enough but there is a lot of money at stake and to best of my knowledge there have been systems that have failed I think it's a good idea for them to know exactly who is installing it is approved.

 

[hail hail]

Doing it this way also guarantee's more profit as they bring the stuff into the country, they can charge a set amount, and also charge for training.
The cost of the materials is strongly guided by the grants that are available in my experience.
I don't rate it myself, far better ways of insulating a property at less expense


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That's what I was thinking! Has to do with these grants and ways to maximize profits for these companies!

What better ways of insulating a property. There's 3 ways I know of and that's either pump the cavity, internal insulation or this system and anything I read, this is the best method.

 

[BigK]

P


But common sense tells you its going to be the one who installed it. Its like getting someone to float the house in S&C, you ain't going to phone the sand and cement companies blaming them.

And that's why s&c has I limited timespan on new builds in Ireland as you can't get certification for it


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[BigK]

It depends on the property, there are so many variables.
Have you got vents in each room? Couldn't believe the vents when I first came to Ireland, spend a fortune on insulation and then put a big feckin 4 inch hole in your wall!!!
I'd get rid of them and have vents put on your windows, that would be the first step!!
Rented a house when o first came over and every time there was a good wind outside it was having roger Whittaker sat in the corner feckin whistling!


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[hail hail]

It depends on the property, there are so many variables.
Have you got vents in each room? Couldn't believe the vents when I first came to Ireland, spend a fortune on insulation and then put a big feckin 4 inch hole in your wall!!!
I'd get rid of them and have vents put on your windows, that would be the first step!!
Rented a house when o first came over and every time there was a good wind outside it was having roger Whittaker sat in the corner feckin whistling!


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I have vents in all my windows. As fir sticking a 4inch vent in the wall, I agree, f**k**g madness. There's this new system out tho, the vents open and close with the temp you set it at so its not throwing all your heat out them.

As for the best way to insulate, still think this is the best method after the house was finished

 

[BigK]

Insulated boards for me, with the exterior system you will have to heat up your inside skin of 4 inch block, heat your cavity and heat your outside block before the external system will even start to take effect.
At which point the heat would have surely gone upwards and gone by this stage!


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[flynnyman]

Sure one stop sells it and I didn't think you needed any licence to buy it coz the guarantee on the gear is worth nothing coz the blame will be passed to the installer and that's the same with any product.

 

[Plasterers1StopShop]

We can sell it to you with no licence required. If you want the full system guarantees and approvals, that's when you need to come on the training course. This is often free of charge with the manufacturer.

Nowadays with specifications etc and the power of the Internet. If you have stuck to the spec and done everything correctly, the system then fails, the manufacturers will have to look into it.
If I sold you a system, you had all your approvals and specs and it failed I would make sure the manufacturers looked into it

 

[BigK]

Buying the gear off p1ss, it will get done cheap enough, it's those stupid grants where the suppliers are stealing money.
On say a 10k job you will get a grant for 4K.
Sounds great, but in reality it's a 6k job, with enough money for everyone.
Those grants really get on my tits, as it's not the lads doing the job that are taking public funded money, but the big supplying firms.
[emoji35]


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[Vincey]

Buying the gear off p1ss, it will get done cheap enough, it's those stupid grants where the suppliers are stealing money.
On say a 10k job you will get a grant for 4K.
Sounds great, but in reality it's a 6k job, with enough money for everyone.
Those grants really get on my tits, as it's not the lads doing the job that are taking public funded money, but the big supplying firms.
[emoji35]


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Insulated boards for me, with the exterior system you will have to heat up your inside skin of 4 inch block, heat your cavity and heat your outside block before the external system will even start to take effect.
At which point the heat would have surely gone upwards and gone by this stage!


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Have you installed the ewi systems?
Or any of the manufacturer training days?

 

[BigK]

Haven't done the training days, but give a gang of 'trained' lads a few days dig out now & again.

Why??



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[hail hail]

We can sell it to you with no licence required. If you want the full system guarantees and approvals, that's when you need to come on the training course. This is often free of charge with the manufacturer.

Nowadays with specifications etc and the power of the Internet. If you have stuck to the spec and done everything correctly, the system then fails, the manufacturers will have to look into it.
If I sold you a system, you had all your approvals and specs and it failed I would make sure the manufacturers looked into it

So the training of this product is free but how much is a license to use it so one can certify it. Here in Ireland its quite a few thousand if I remember correctly.

The reason why I ask this is that even thou I'm thinking of doing it without the permit, someone mentioned it might effect my house insurance. You know what them b*****d of insurance companies are like. If there ever was a house fire, them bastards would probably not pay out since the insulation wasn't done by a registered squad.

All that aside, what's the price for per m2 of everything needed for the 100mm insulation apart from the cills. If I remember correctly its between 20-30 euro per sqM here just for materials.

 

[hail hail]

Haven't done the training days, but give a gang of 'trained' lads a few days dig out now & again.

Why??



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Same here and TBH, its handy work thou best not to use your best tools because the stuff is a ballix to get off.

 

[hail hail]

Buying the gear off p1ss, it will get done cheap enough, it's those stupid grants where the suppliers are stealing money.
On say a 10k job you will get a grant for 4K.
Sounds great, but in reality it's a 6k job, with enough money for everyone.
Those grants really get on my tits, as it's not the lads doing the job that are taking public funded money, but the big supplying firms.
[emoji35]


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Grants are only available for houses built before 2006. I started building mine at 2004 but didn't finish until 2009.

 

[BigK]

As I said, the grants aren't worth a shite and the system is abused.
Regarding the cost of liscence etc, the lads who supply the gear take a percentage of each job. Can't recall the figure, don't think it was a big figure but I remember thinking f**k that on principle!
Got ta buy the gear of them and then they keep a % of the job.



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[hail hail]

As I said, the grants aren't worth a shite and the system is abused.
Regarding the cost of liscence etc, the lads who supply the gear take a percentage of each job. Can't recall the figure, don't think it was a big figure but I remember thinking f**k that on principle!
Got ta buy the gear of them and then they keep a % of the job.



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I'm near sure I read it was near 4-5k then extra insurance so I decided to give it a miss. I've an uncle in NZ and all he pays is a few hundred dollars. Wish it was like that here thou in saying that, I might ring around and find out exactly how much the license is because all I'm going on at the min is the internet

 

[Vincey]

Haven't done the training days, but give a gang of 'trained' lads a few days dig out now & again.

Why??



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I Just done the weber and thought it was quite informative.i not done any ewi for real but want to go out with some dudes to gain some experience of it real life.the reason I ask you was just your view on the interior boards v external.on the exterior people say it's better on the outside and I thought it was better on the inside as you said.
There were guys on day there who we're saying they were there so they get the guarantee but had used it before which lost me a bit.i thought you could only install after training day I my well be wrong.
Just asked out of interest bigK.

 

[BigK]

Would presume things would be different in UK & Ireland also.....


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[hail hail]

I Just done the weber and thought it was quite informative.i not done any ewi for real but want to go out with some dudes to gain some experience of it real life.the reason I ask you was just your view on the interior boards v external.on the exterior people say it's better on the outside and I thought it was better on the inside as you said.
There were guys on day there who we're saying they were there so they get the guarantee but had used it before which lost me a bit.i thought you could only install after training day I my well be wrong.
Just asked out of interest bigK.

IMO and anything I've read, internal insulation loses heat quicker than external and alought he's right about heating the walls but that's also a benefit as when one turns the heating off, the house holds the heat more. If I were to do it, I'd also fill the cavity for extra benefits.

 

[BigK]

What about it escaping vertically? What's at the the top of your wall plate?


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[Vincey]

IMO and anything I've read, internal insulation loses heat quicker than external and alought he's right about heating the walls but that's also a benefit as when one turns the heating off, the house holds the heat more. If I were to do it, I'd also fill the cavity for extra benefits.

Agreed.
The strawbale homes seem the most logical and cost effective to me.
And the best for the environment.
Might sound a bit far out there but just makes sence to me if people want more affordable homes built quicker with low environment impact .

 

[hail hail]

What about it escaping vertically? What's at the the top of your wall plate?


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I have thick boards of that new insulation in parts of my ceiling. The first 1.4m of the ceiling then it rises up into my dormer.

 

[hail hail]

Agreed.
The strawbale homes seem the most logical and cost effective to me.
And the best for the environment.
Might sound a bit far out there but just makes sence to me if people want more affordable homes built quicker with low environment impact .

Agree but my house is already up so can't go knocking it just to put straw bales up

 

[Vincey]

Agree but my house is already up so can't go knocking it just to put straw bales up

Just saying like.

Saying that though if there is a local farmer you might be able to do a deal.

 

[4400kevin]

Have only did this twice on a day rate for a guy who had the license for it but wanting to buy the materials and do it on my own house in the country.

Its a 2400sqft with large windows and the majority of the insulation would be in the 2 gables. One thing about getting your hands on the stuff to complete it, well let's just say its difficult because any supplier I phone, they won't sell it to me without the permit/ license to do it. That wouldn't be to bad if it was just a few hundred but the cost runs into the 1000s.

Scratching my head as to why they wouldn't sell it to someone who's compenate to do so without needing a license. I totally understand why when a contractor does it that he's to guarantee it if if ever fails but to stop us all using it is just ridiculous!

Is this the same in the UK?

You can get the materials without a permit no problem, your best to buy the eps direct from Kore. I went with 100mm eps. You can get your base rail, fixings base coat etc from a few places in Dublin.
The grant is available pre 2006 as you said, its counted from when you got your esb connection.
If you need any help let me know ill can give you supplier details.

 

[hail hail]

Just saying like.

Saying that though if there is a local farmer you might be able to do a deal.

Only kidding ya but if I had a chance again to build my house, I'd do it Luke something you mentioned above. Love watching them go up on grand designs but never knew about them when doing my own

 

[hail hail]

You can get the materials without a permit no problem, your best to buy the eps direct from Kore. I went with 100mm eps. You can get your base rail, fixings base coat etc from a few places in Dublin.
The grant is available pre 2006 as you said, its counted from when you got your esb connection.
If you need any help let me know ill can give you supplier details.

Don't think I got connected until 2007 thou I don't think you get the grant if you do the work yourself.

Yeah, send me supplier's details and I'll look into it but most engineers I talk to or read online, you can't get materials. I've also asked in few builders yards too.

 

[paddy5]

Unless there is a reason why you can not Insulate board internal and pump cavity, you would be mad to go down the ewi route, put the money you have saved into tripple glazing if flush.

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[hail hail]

Unless there is a reason why you can not Insulate board internal and pump cavity, you would be mad to go down the ewi route, put the money you have saved into tripple glazing if flush.

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I have 12 windows, most are very large and 2 sliding doors. Triple glazing for all these will cost a small fortune. As fir infernally insulate, that's a messy job fir a house getting lived in.
I'm just your average working class fella with a family so don't want to be spending all that money on triple glaze and internal insulation. If I can source the external stuff, I think this will be my best option.

 

[BigK]

I'd do it inside, one room at a time, surely cheaper too!


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[paddy5]

You'd be surprised at the price of tripple glazing man, I got 19 plus a front and back door for seven grand back in 2010, Munster Joinery but so far so good, we are heating 2,500sqft for about 200euros per annum in oil, plus about a bag and half of coal a week in winter, Solar heating H20 in Summer admittedly. We have heat recovery but reckons it a waste of time re heating though good for ventilation as we are fairly airtight if chislers would only close the doors. Of all these spends the insulation and tripple Glazing was best value .

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