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Thanks Andy...I see what your saying...when you say make sure it cures properly...I take it you mean control the suction on the background and make sure it doesn't dry to quickly or freeze!? But at the end of the day I guess the safe option is to always go for a weaker mix...Andy do you put lime and waterproofer in both coats...seen some guys do this but it says on the back of waterproofer not to mix with lime...

how does 6.1 with waterproofer on scratch
and 7.1.1 on top sound?
 
FreeD said:
Thanks Andy...I see what your saying...when you say make sure it cures properly...I take it you mean control the suction on the background and make sure it doesn't dry to quickly or freeze!? But at the end of the day I guess the safe option is to always go for a weaker mix...Andy do you put lime and waterproofer in both coats...seen some guys do this but it says on the back of waterproofer not to mix with lime...

how does 6.1 with waterproofer on scratch
and 7.1.1 on top sound?
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I personally don't don't use lime in the scratch coat as a rule. 6:1 topped with 7:1:1 should be fine if the bricks are very soft, just remember that different grades of sand can also make a huge difference to the final strength of the render.
 
Different back grounds need different mixes 3x1 scratch and top does sound risky to many people only think about the strength of the mix rather than the surface its going on to and this is when you get problems .for example you do 3x1 on an ariated block you will find a huge sand pit at the bottom of the wall
 
Yea very true guess you have to be alot more careful with a weaker mix that the sand is clean! Then you got to make sure the labourer doesn't mess it up!
 
3-1 is the proper way to do it mate, all the books say so PLASTERING AN ENCYCLOPAEDIA (B.F.PEGG AND W.D.STAGG) PAGE 77 ALSO PLASTERING PLAIN AND DECORATIVE (W MILLER) the first book is most up to date and available but they all say the same thing mate 7-1 is to weak mate, the wind will blow it away ::)
 
Interesting how it varies so much! Why on airated will a 3.1 end up on the floor?

I think this discussion is pushing me more and more towards premixed renders!...
 
always dictated by the background and the strength required to give the best performance ie strength density flexibilty etc whatever
 
So are you saying that if you have very soft bricks...and you put a 3.1 and then a 4.1.1 on that it will crack?
 
FreeD said:
So are you saying that if you have very soft bricks...and you put a 3.1 and then a 4.1.1 on that it will crack?
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renders crack if you scour them to much or if the dry out to fast mate, go and get any book on plastering ;)
 
kirk johnstone said:
3-1 is the proper way to do it mate, all the books say so PLASTERING AN ENCYCLOPAEDIA (B.F.PEGG AND W.D.STAGG) PAGE 77 ALSO PLASTERING PLAIN AND DECORATIVE (W MILLER) the first book is most up to date and available but they all say the same thing mate 7-1 is to weak mate, the wind will blow it away ::)
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I think you need to re-read Plastering an Encyclopaedia, what they say is "under certain conditions a 1:3 mix may be specified but this is usually considered too strong and dense", like I said before do you know anything about rendering Kirk ::) In this day and age you should be working to B.S. not some old book anyway.
 
essexandy said:
kirk johnstone said:
3-1 is the proper way to do it mate, all the books say so PLASTERING AN ENCYCLOPAEDIA (B.F.PEGG AND W.D.STAGG) PAGE 77 ALSO PLASTERING PLAIN AND DECORATIVE (W MILLER) the first book is most up to date and available but they all say the same thing mate 7-1 is to weak mate, the wind will blow it away ::)
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I think you need to re-read Plastering an Encyclopaedia, what they say is "under certain conditions a 1:3 mix may be specified but this is usually considered too strong and dense", like I said before do you know anything about rendering Kirk ::) In this day and age you should be working to B.S. not some old book anyway.
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i have the book in front of me andy what page dose it say that on?
oh and i trust what the old books say because there work is still there today 100 years later? i would like to see your work in 100 years time, anyway back to the point what page am i looking for?
 
kirk johnstone said:
essexandy said:
kirk johnstone said:
3-1 is the proper way to do it mate, all the books say so PLASTERING AN ENCYCLOPAEDIA (B.F.PEGG AND W.D.STAGG) PAGE 77 ALSO PLASTERING PLAIN AND DECORATIVE (W MILLER) the first book is most up to date and available but they all say the same thing mate 7-1 is to weak mate, the wind will blow it away ::)
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I think you need to re-read Plastering an Encyclopaedia, what they say is "under certain conditions a 1:3 mix may be specified but this is usually considered too strong and dense", like I said before do you know anything about rendering Kirk ::) In this day and age you should be working to B.S. not some old book anyway.
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i have the book in front of me andy what page dose it say that on?
oh and i trust what the old books say because there work is still there today 100 years later? i would like to see your work in 100 years time, anyway back to the point what page am i looking for?
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You probably will mate , if you live that long , and no it was not meant to sound like a threat , just in case you misconstrue what i am saying , his work will probs still be around in 100 years ;D ;D
 
warriorupnorth said:
kirk johnstone said:
essexandy said:
kirk johnstone said:
3-1 is the proper way to do it mate, all the books say so PLASTERING AN ENCYCLOPAEDIA (B.F.PEGG AND W.D.STAGG) PAGE 77 ALSO PLASTERING PLAIN AND DECORATIVE (W MILLER) the first book is most up to date and available but they all say the same thing mate 7-1 is to weak mate, the wind will blow it away ::)
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I think you need to re-read Plastering an Encyclopaedia, what they say is "under certain conditions a 1:3 mix may be specified but this is usually considered too strong and dense", like I said before do you know anything about rendering Kirk ::) In this day and age you should be working to B.S. not some old book anyway.
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i have the book in front of me andy what page dose it say that on?
oh and i trust what the old books say because there work is still there today 100 years later? i would like to see your work in 100 years time, anyway back to the point what page am i looking for?
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You probably will mate , if you live that long , and no it was not meant to sound like a threat , just in case you misconstrue what i am saying , his work will probs still be around in 100 years ;D ;D
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am not trying to be a tit mate am sure he is a great plasterer but i still trust the textbooks more than him. its like this, its called a weaker mix because it is weaker, something that is weak dose not last as long as something that is strong.
 
It's on different pages according to which edition you have, just look under "Cement plainface finish". You'll see that they quote gauges as weak as 1:2:9 cement, lime, sand. I know we won't be able to check my renders in 100 years but I still see renders that my old man did 45 years ago and they still look good as new 8) using the same methods I use today (well almost). Mind you we could just have been lucky up until now ;)
 
essexandy said:
It's on different pages according to which edition you have, just look under "Cement plainface finish". You'll see that they quote gauges as weak as 1:2:9 cement, lime, sand. I know we won't be able to check my renders in 100 years but I still see renders that my old man did 45 years ago and they still look good as new 8) using the same methods I use today (well almost). Mind you we could just have been lucky up until now ;)
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i cant find that chapter under that name, i have the fourth edition, but even so you say 1-2-9 cement lime sand


cement=binder
lime=binder
sand=aggregate

so it works out 3-binder to 9-aggregate wich is the same as 3-1 mate ;D (not tryin to be a smart arse) ;)
 
kirk johnstone said:
essexandy said:
It's on different pages according to which edition you have, just look under "Cement plainface finish". You'll see that they quote gauges as weak as 1:2:9 cement, lime, sand. I know we won't be able to check my renders in 100 years but I still see renders that my old man did 45 years ago and they still look good as new 8) using the same methods I use today (well almost). Mind you we could just have been lucky up until now ;)
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i cant find that chapter under that name, i have the fourth edition, but even so you say 1-2-9 cement lime sand


cement=binder
lime=binder
sand=aggregate

so it works out 3-binder to 9-aggregate wich is the same as 3-1 mate ;D (not tryin to be a smart arse) ;)
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Kirk if you genuinly think that a 9:2:1 mix is the same as a 3:1 mix then you really don't have any understanding of the materials we use for rendering, if you are just having a "laugh" then that's fine but on a subject like this we should either give proper advise or say nothing at all as it could really cause someone a very costly problem, this isn't a trivial subject like CSCS you know ::)

P.S don't worry Kirk you don't come across as a smart arse.
 
ive laid buff paving slabs using nothing but a 4:1 sand:lime, no cement at all and theyre still down, the pointing is solid and theyve got 2 rottweilers, umpteen horses, 3 staff and the bird wears heels a lot...
that said, if the book said 1:2:9 and thats supposed to be the same as 1:3 then why doesnt the book just say 'sod the lime, why buy lime when youve already got cement on site?, it does exactly the same job as cement'

but it doesnt, and theres a reason for that... which hopefully andy will now explain in great detail for the benefit of anal muppets like me that want to understand the chemical processes taking place so i can appear knowledgeable when asked on site by someone who may just turn out to be the god of all things plastering albeit retired?
 
I'd print it while you still can...far as i'm aware Zurich no longer offer policies on building work...but they are still honouring exisiting policies. All written to British Standards.
 
My Grandads old house was rendered by his father in 1918, 6-1 scratch, 7-1-1 top, its all still there sound and crack free, so i`m with a weaker mix.Its was built with shitty old mix match bricks, straight after the war.
 
kebab king said:
My Grandads old house was rendered by his father in 1918, 6-1 scratch, 7-1-1 top, its all still there sound and crack free, so i`m with a weaker mix.Its was built with (german word)ty old mix match bricks, straight after the war.
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Alright kebab where have you been? there was some fella on here the other week said you done a job for his father inlaw, he was well pleased. :)
 
kebab king said:
Who was that Flinny, some one pleased with my work, thats a first
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Yeh he was well pleased only a little ceiling in Berkshire, think it was his uncle said you done it over New Year, give yourself a pat on the back. :)
 
flynnyman said:
kebab king said:
Who was that Flinny, some one pleased with my work, thats a first
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Yeh he was well pleased only a little ceiling in Berkshire, think it was his uncle said you done it over New Year, give yourself a pat on the back. :)
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;D ;D ;D ;D
 
bodplasterer said:
;D ;D ;D Your funny ;D flynny is that what you worked out on the clues?
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I cannot discuss my findings this is an open forum and i wouldnt want to point the finger hahahaha
 
Well if its in Berkshire it rules me out, not done anywork there, also laid all my tools up for new year .However, i do know a few on here who do live and work in Berks.What was the thread.
 
kebab king said:
Well if its in Berkshire it rules me out, not done anywork there, also laid all my tools up for new year .However, i do know a few on here who do live and work in Berks.What was the thread.
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Let me know, post their names up here and i will post the thread up :)
 
Strong renders often or not will not last as long as weaker renders depending on what they are on, if there is any movement they can crack, water gets behind and failure.
Back to the drawing board Flinny
Lucius
 
lucius said:
Strong renders often or not will not last as long as weaker renders depending on what they are on, if there is any movement they can crack, water gets behind and failure.
Back to the drawing board Flinny
Lucius
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back to the drawing board?
 
3-1 sand & cement or sand & lime or 6-2 sand cement and lime or anything else it still works out 1 binder - three aggregate anything less wont last, if you went to collage then your text book will say so and if you disagree then you are a chancer. end ov
 
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