Gold Trowel 6 week City & Guilds Qualification including a Krend (Rendering) Certific

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Company im working for do a 2 day course and a 5 day course in plastering and i am on site with the bloke that teaches the course and he keeps coming in and asking me whether he should put something onto engineering bricks before he plasters it :-0 lol
 
I just had a lad start with me who had done 2 years at college passed with distinctions. When i said right scrim up the room he asked what even the corners!!! Then couldnt fill a bead out properly and then when i gave him a wall to put on he took the plaster of his hawk the placed his trowel on the floor and procedied up the wall with it dragging every bit of s**t with it! Thats how he was taught at college so to Andy best thing to do save your money and try find a decent lad to train you up or become a drylinner any fool can do that all you need is a Knife and a tape!!!
 
The thing is Dave you are still gonna need patchers in this world and on site these dudes usually get sussed out pretty quick and put on to patching duty until there up to scratch and as for the paying public if they are gonna take a chance on some one that hasnt been recommended then they pay there money they take there chance.
 
its just too much of an 'oldschool' trade spunk, as soon as they invent a machine that can cost effectively do the work of 3 men, youre f'cked... totally...
and they have, havent they....
then you got the hse snappin at yer heels... wont be long before your not allowed a bucket of water anywhere near the bloody job...
mark my words... get into something else while yer still got yer youth...
im thinking keep at it while its steady, build more domestic customers then soon as it kicks off proper, sell the company to some courser... :RpS_w00t:

by which time I'll have got into waste management and made a mint... :flapper:
 
My mate has a environmental waste management company Chris he does allright but he also has a degree in bio chemistry so it didnt come easy.
 
I went on a weeks course 6 years ago, started on my own straight after it and haven't looked back since. I'd consider myself on a par with any other plasterer, and a damn sight better than a lot of them. This trade is not the mystery people make it out to be, afterall you need no certs to go and do it.
There are a lot of people out there that think to "earn your stripes" you have to be barked at and treated like garbage by some old school plasterer for for a few years before you can truly be a plasterer. Going on a course certainly won't do any harm if you have the funds to do it. I have had 2 lads off a Goldtrowel course come and work with me and move on to work for themselves, things move on, just a pity some people are stuck in nuetral.
 
got a couple of machines mate trust me there more hassel than what there worth would still rather hand ball it on
 
i canny believe people expect to learn a craft like plastering in 6 weeks, i would imagine it would be a total waste of money, what do you get tought in that time, how to straighten and finish a m2 lol, ban courses i say especially plastering ones, have read alot of abuse from tradesmen, and no wonder, we do a 4 year apprenticship and get payed penuts to learn and master the trade, down to lazy spreads who canny be bothered banging on m2 anymore looking for quick cash, 500 for a 6 weeker lol.
 
I wish people would actually go on a goldtrowel course before they judge it. I went on a 1 week goldtrowel course because I wasnt willing to pay a plasterer £700 to render my outhouse which I built. Why you ask? ...because I paid for an '27year experienced plasterer' to patch my wall, and he left if a pile of s**t! I wouldn't judge all plasterers on his performance though, the same way you can't judge all course providers or students that do the courses.

Ask yourself why these courses exist. Virtually no one wants to give people a chance, and when they do, the lad just gets stuck on tea duties, mixing, with virtually no time on the tools because they don't want to lose a good labourer. ...Nothing wrong with that if you have 3-5 years to waste working for pennies before you get to practice the trade. Sorry to say it, but any monkey can mix, and monkey can clean up, and anyone can make tea. What the course does is get you straight on the tools from day one. The guys that run the course are all very experienced, quick, and thorough spreads. Instead of them working and giving you a few pointers as they go, they are teaching you all day and you are practicing on rough, wonky s**t walls all day for 5 days a week. If you don't think that 6 weeks of solid tuition, and practise will give you a good start then you are deluded. As for the theory, that is covered in manuals and dvds before the course, so before you even start you have a good insight into the proceedures and techniques. All thats needed is loads of practice- which you get.

1 square metre???? ..b*ll***s...you get your own rooms, your own spot board and a set of tools and away you go. The rooms gradually get bigger, then some ******* (instructor) comes along an smashes a hole or two in it for you to make good. Have a look at the sylabus for the big courses- its just a small portion of what you end up doing. I know there are some bad courses out there, but goldtrowel is not one of them. Check it out before you judge them.

When I went to the course I saw what the people on the city and guilds were capable of- it was impressive. Would I pay for the work they did? Absolutly. Do I think they need practice to get quicker? Yes. Remember that most customers want a good job, not a quick one. I should know...I was one.

I've skimmed many rooms in my house to a good standard, I've built an outhouse in my garden from scratch, and I feel ready to work for other people. But I am still going to do my C&G because I think that I should be qualified by a body of autority, not a spread that has his own agenda.
 
if you think being city and guilds qualified is something special then you are the deluded one my friend. long before i even knew these courses existed and before i came on here, i was working on a site when i was about 18/19. a new spread came along telling us how he'd done a 6 week course and was now fully qualified with a cscs. wow i thought, to learn AND get qualified in 6 weeks he must be s**t hot.

couldnt have been further from the truth. the bloke was shocking. i'd only been plastering for a couple of years and i was twice as fast, twice as clean and twice as good. he put a mix on at half 3 expecting it to be finished when the site closed at half 4 lol. he took a month to dab and skim a 3 bed flat. we were doing them in 3 days (we being me, a 18yr old kid and a 64 year old coffin dodger). the best part of it was he was bragging about how hes already learning to become a teacher. and yes i mean of plastering.


i agree the course can be a stepping stone but its only that. alot of people expect to be a master plasterer at the end of it and thats what pisses me off. maybe some people can go at it straight away, and i mean some, but the majority cant. i would hate the thought of letting a fresh courser loose on their own. yes, after a couple of years they may be getting up to scratch, but what about before then?

if i had to do it all over again but could choose between learning the hard, dirty, thankless way and going on a course. give me the kettle n sweeping brush any day. cant beat learning on the job by experienced blokes
 
some people either have it or they dont....

blame the gov for scrapping apprenticeships.... it is now one of the only viable way to get into the trade...

Also the general public are not helping :-)
 
@beddy- Good post, what you said makes a lot of sense. Like I said though, you can't judge all coursers on one bloke the same way I wouldnt judge all because of the bloke that had been doing it 27 years. One thing a course doesnt provide you with is real site experience, but like any job, you have to learn to work in each environment you are put into.

I agree no one should ever consider themselves a master plasterer without a lot of experience to go with it. The blame for that is on the marketing gurus at the course providers. But I do think the right person can get to a good standard if they do the c&G- I've seen it. Speed comes with time, but if the quality is good then the only person losing out is the spread.
 
ive got me c+g advanced craft and to be honest it only taught me about fibrous and external running never been asked to show it though oh and it took 3 years on block release if codensed would be about 48 weeks but i dont blame guys doing the courses as now its the only way to get into the game a lot of labs look at plastering and think fcuk that i dont want the responsibility or the hard work involved
 
kINGPIN said:
I wish people would actually go on a goldtrowel course before they judge it. I went on a 1 week goldtrowel course because I wasnt willing to pay a plasterer £700 to render my outhouse which I built. Why you ask? ...because I paid for an '27year experienced plasterer' to patch my wall, and he left if a pile of s**t! I wouldn't judge all plasterers on his performance though, the same way you can't judge all course providers or students that do the courses.

Ask yourself why these courses exist. Virtually no one wants to give people a chance, and when they do, the lad just gets stuck on tea duties, mixing, with virtually no time on the tools because they don't want to lose a good labourer. ...Nothing wrong with that if you have 3-5 years to waste working for pennies before you get to practice the trade. Sorry to say it, but any monkey can mix, and monkey can clean up, and anyone can make tea. What the course does is get you straight on the tools from day one. The guys that run the course are all very experienced, quick, and thorough spreads. Instead of them working and giving you a few pointers as they go, they are teaching you all day and you are practicing on rough, wonky s**t walls all day for 5 days a week. If you don't think that 6 weeks of solid tuition, and practise will give you a good start then you are deluded. As for the theory, that is covered in manuals and dvds before the course, so before you even start you have a good insight into the proceedures and techniques. All thats needed is loads of practice- which you get.

1 square metre???? ..b*ll***s...you get your own rooms, your own spot board and a set of tools and away you go. The rooms gradually get bigger, then some ******* (instructor) comes along an smashes a hole or two in it for you to make good. Have a look at the sylabus for the big courses- its just a small portion of what you end up doing. I know there are some bad courses out there, but goldtrowel is not one of them. Check it out before you judge them.

When I went to the course I saw what the people on the city and guilds were capable of- it was impressive. Would I pay for the work they did? Absolutly. Do I think they need practice to get quicker? Yes. Remember that most customers want a good job, not a quick one. I should know...I was one.

I've skimmed many rooms in my house to a good standard, I've built an outhouse in my garden from scratch, and I feel ready to work for other people. But I am still going to do my C&G because I think that I should be qualified by a body of autority, not a spread that has his own agenda.
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no offence mate but u want to pm asking what my problem is when all u do is talk s**t. please tell me where u are based, and come and work with me for a week. i had a labourer that was at college for 2 yrs. he was s**t, and he was one of the top in his class. after 6 weeks u will understand the process of skimming, floating etc. but u will not be any good. the fact u can skim a 10m wall does not make u good. any1 can skim a wall. i could teach some1 in a few days how to. it doesnt mean u can plaster and doesnt mean u are good. and u are wrong in what u said, no not any idiot can mix and clean etc. again i invite u to come and labour for me for a week and u will understand why. u are in a deluded world of because i can skim a wall and float a wall eveyone else is talking rubbish, plastering is easy blah blah. its all been said before. put your money where your mouth otherwise shut it u no it all t**t
 
So you are saying that anyone can skim in 2 days but it takes years to learn how to mix? ....nice one, don't think I'll bother thanks. How many times do I have to say it; I never claimed I was a great plasterer, just better then the bloke I payed. Read back to my first post and see how this started. Anyway, I'm done arguing with you you illiterate fuckknuckle. I hope you and spunkgobbler have beautiful babies together.


nick0412 said:
no offence mate but u want to pm asking what my problem is when all u do is talk s**t. please tell me where u are based, and come and work with me for a week. i had a labourer that was at college for 2 yrs. he was s**t, and he was one of the top in his class. after 6 weeks u will understand the process of skimming, floating etc. but u will not be any good. the fact u can skim a 10m wall does not make u good. any1 can skim a wall. i could teach some1 in a few days how to. it doesnt mean u can plaster and doesnt mean u are good. and u are wrong in what u said, no not any idiot can mix and clean etc. again i invite u to come and labour for me for a week and u will understand why. u are in a deluded world of because i can skim a wall and float a wall eveyone else is talking rubbish, plastering is easy blah blah. its all been said before. put your money where your mouth otherwise shut it u no it all t**t
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i didnt say it takes yrs to learnt to mix if u read back. any monkey can skim a wall when shown how to. it takes a fair while to learn to labour properly. as u obvioulsy havent ever laboured u wouldnt understand. being better than the bloke u payed means nothing, iv just been at a house where the plastering was appauling. he was probably just a chancer like ur guy. but having never worked with decent spreads u have nothing to compare to and so have convinced urself u no more than people who obviously have more experience than u. after 2 yrs u are still very green and dont know half of what u should. especially if ur not being taught 5 days a week. it does benefit u to not be on the tools for a while and watch people and understand what its all about. uv just decided coz u can skim a wall that u do no what its all about. unfortunatly mate ur just a little boy trying to be a man.
 
PM sent while you were writing this.


nick0412 said:
i didnt say it takes yrs to learnt to mix if u read back. any monkey can skim a wall when shown how to. it takes a fair while to learn to labour properly. as u obvioulsy havent ever laboured u wouldnt understand. being better than the bloke u payed means nothing, iv just been at a house where the plastering was appauling. he was probably just a chancer like ur guy. but having never worked with decent spreads u have nothing to compare to and so have convinced urself u no more than people who obviously have more experience than u. after 2 yrs u are still very green and dont know half of what u should. especially if ur not being taught 5 days a week. it does benefit u to not be on the tools for a while and watch people and understand what its all about. uv just decided coz u can skim a wall that u do no what its all about. unfortunatly mate ur just a little boy trying to be a man.
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Some really good posts on here. Best argument for a long while :RpS_thumbup: Beddy, your post was spot on. Its a pity it has to turn into a my dicks bigger than your dick argument. Thats where this forum lets itself down.

I agree a muppet expecting to mix up an hour before a site closes is stupid but for every 20 people on a course there will be 3/4 lads who will pick it up and really run with it and go on to be decent spreads. The rest are doomed.Beddys post was spot on in as much as you only see your own work from day one you have no real benchmark as to what top bannana works lookslike. Also my old karate instructor used to say if you want to up your game put yourselves in the class with the experienced blackbelts where you are outclassed everytime rather than showing off with lower grades.

I know 2 spreads whove been in the game 30 odd yrs. One is a messy $^%^ showed up a a job of a family member yrs back. HSL with beige carpets :RpS_scared:. He had no sheets or tarps and was actually gonna do the job without any floor covering till we told him to go and get some. He also never PVA'd the walls on a re skim. He put the PVA in his first mix and said tht does the same job????


THe other lad is 2nd generation spread. Work is A1. Clean as a pin and fast. Problem is he is an ungratefull *^%% I have passed numerous jobs to him that are too big for me and he takes them off me like hes doin me a favour. No thank you, no drink, no offer of come along and learn a bit with us.
 
"apprenticeships are back and give it a few years these coursers will be tore apart by them "

Spunky depends on who is doing them. If its the 16 yr old dim shits from school in the tracksuits and silly hats, getting stoned in college and think everythings a laugh then it wont work. I would put my money on a 30 yr old motivated and mature lad on a 6 week course who has kids to feed and mortgages to pay.
 
exactly! Everybody is different....

But what I have noticed is that spreads that mainly do rendering ie warrior, owls etc they are not moaning about coursers because they are not effected by them because there trade is a damn slight harder to get right.

The fact that skimming is a doddle and that very few houses get float and set these days mean that teaching people to skim is easy. You can learn skimming very easily and if were on site for a good few weeks you will get quick and get good very quickly.

the fact is that the demand for floating is non existent especially on domestic work any re***d can stick boards up plumb (unless they are pros then they seem to be rough)

skimming a 3m2 wall is the same as skimming 30m2 wall you just got to be more efficient the hardest part of the game is keeping clean and that comes with time.

You cant buy experience but you can buy the training that will hopefully give you the experience when you leave.

However you are always learning......

I rather have a 30 year old apprentice with me than a gobby 16 yr old that just wants to get stoned.....

I have never used Krend or in fact any render other than S&C so I dont know how easy it is but I assume the principles are still the same.
 
Danny your prob right about the rendering. Skills req are higher and also tools and set up costs higher. Mixer,scaff,larger van, spray machine etc.
 
Windy and kingpin you can go on and on and on and on and on .....you come from a completely different background which isn't working day in day out plastering, it's like me arguing the toss with a load of plumbers after doing it 6 weeks yeah I know what I'm doing ......the construction industry rates of pay are based on supply and demand a labourer brought up well will earn good coin they will be proficient at what they do and learn a wide range of skills, windy if a 30 year old came to me and asked me for a job I'd take him on as a labourer if he can survive on that rate that's up to him
 
windy my arguement is nothing to do with the size of my penis. i was merely pointing out that i'd never heard of these courses before this bloke came along. and my first thought was 'well if thats what these courses do for the trade, then they are a waste of time'

i do quite a bit of work with someone who did a course a few years ago and he is now very good. gets alot of recommendations, doesnt charge £50 a day and works on some nice jobs. so yes, the courses can work. but as i said im sure more fail than suceed and when i mean suceed i mean they become a good plasterer.
 
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