Insurance backed guarantees
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johniosaif
Private Member
No..and no
plasterjfe
Private Member
Back a few years most if not all manufacturers warranties (proper warranties) were insurance Backed anyway now the contractors are being drawn into the deal. As far as I know it is only recently that contractors are having to have their install backed by insurance warranty.
Looking at a failed building currently and the manufacturer can show workmanship issues buy the contractor who installed the Job but they no longer exist having gone bust.
Now I have to inspect the building again for the insurance companies assessor.....obviously no one wants the liability and I ain't sure how it will pan out yet but its interesting to see
Looking at a failed building currently and the manufacturer can show workmanship issues buy the contractor who installed the Job but they no longer exist having gone bust.
Now I have to inspect the building again for the insurance companies assessor.....obviously no one wants the liability and I ain't sure how it will pan out yet but its interesting to see
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adapt
Active Member
Damp proofing guarantees are actually only good for as long as the company trades.
I know of a certain company issuing 30 year guarantee's and the owner is 65+ so I would say them bits of paper are going to be worthless that he is issuing now.
Something the banks really should look into, insurance backed guarantees are another mine field, getting them to prove there is a failed treatment is another job in itself.
You got to remember these companies only like to make money not spend it, I have faith in my work and give the customers a guarantee on all treatments carried out.
If your thinking of getting into remedial works remember that you could end up losing your house over a failed job, it does happen.
The problem now with the remedial works is everyman and his dog are jumping into it and its no long a specialty that it once was or should be.
Local builders merchants stock all the materials now so the true experts in the trade are getting fewer, something I personally think is sad.
I spent a lot of time luckily learning on the job and nothing really bothers me now.
But I do get builders I know ringing me up asking for advice etc, and I always say to them are you issuing a guarantee with the work and they never do.
So in answer to your question if you are planning to sell in the future then a guarantee is essential as the banks like to see some sort of paperwork to show its been done.
Looked at a job the other day, a rival company had tanked an area and it had just ran out of its guarantee, the tanking is leaking and the bank want it re-done.
The reason its leaking is some ******* dosey plumber has drilled though the tanking to hang the radiator lol.
So if it wasn't for the plumber then there wouldn't be a problem, thus the guarantee was voided as soon as the plumber drilled through the tanking.
I know of a certain company issuing 30 year guarantee's and the owner is 65+ so I would say them bits of paper are going to be worthless that he is issuing now.
Something the banks really should look into, insurance backed guarantees are another mine field, getting them to prove there is a failed treatment is another job in itself.
You got to remember these companies only like to make money not spend it, I have faith in my work and give the customers a guarantee on all treatments carried out.
If your thinking of getting into remedial works remember that you could end up losing your house over a failed job, it does happen.
The problem now with the remedial works is everyman and his dog are jumping into it and its no long a specialty that it once was or should be.
Local builders merchants stock all the materials now so the true experts in the trade are getting fewer, something I personally think is sad.
I spent a lot of time luckily learning on the job and nothing really bothers me now.
But I do get builders I know ringing me up asking for advice etc, and I always say to them are you issuing a guarantee with the work and they never do.
So in answer to your question if you are planning to sell in the future then a guarantee is essential as the banks like to see some sort of paperwork to show its been done.
Looked at a job the other day, a rival company had tanked an area and it had just ran out of its guarantee, the tanking is leaking and the bank want it re-done.
The reason its leaking is some ******* dosey plumber has drilled though the tanking to hang the radiator lol.
So if it wasn't for the plumber then there wouldn't be a problem, thus the guarantee was voided as soon as the plumber drilled through the tanking.
the warranty was the main reason that the developer choose expensive material like mono over sand and cement render which had no warranty and gave him plenty of problems.
i think that the defective render that you are going to inspect will be faulty workmanship, like most of the problems.
plasterjfe
Private Member
I already know what the problem is I have inspected this job once before for a different assessor they just don't want to pay for the fix.
The contractor has failed to keep the full spec at certain details.
adapt
Active Member
So would you say the old S&C render is becoming a thing of the past compared to the modern bagged renders?
I have not used a bagged render before, are they easy to use and rub up compared to S&C ?
A couple of the lads I know use them and follow the spec, I think they still dub out with S&C.
I have not used a bagged render before, are they easy to use and rub up compared to S&C ?
A couple of the lads I know use them and follow the spec, I think they still dub out with S&C.
@adapt you said "Damp proofing guarantees are actually only good for as long as the company trades"
"I know of a certain company issuing 30 year guarantee's and the owner is 65+ so I would say them bits of paper are going to be worthless that he is issuing now"
An Insurance backed guarantee takes over when the company is no longer trading, what type of guarantee are you offering then lol?
"I know of a certain company issuing 30 year guarantee's and the owner is 65+ so I would say them bits of paper are going to be worthless that he is issuing now"
An Insurance backed guarantee takes over when the company is no longer trading, what type of guarantee are you offering then lol?
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carlos
Private Member
Product guarantees are not worth shite, I have done jobs that others have done and supplied product guarantees. The supplier will normally tell the claimee that the guarantee only covers the products used, not the workmanship of the installer.
They will then blame the installer, every time. Its all a load of b*ll***s.
I stopped my company doing guaranteed DPC jobs 2 years ago like u say load ov b*ll***s. Plus most jobs I went on I found a reason for the damp walls and It wasn't rising damp
The guarantee companies will not help you when your in the ****!!! When they make you an approved contractor on a 1 day course, they don't make you a surveyor, but most of all they don't teach you about the legal implications of a survey or remedial works. Even if you don't guarantee your work you will still be liable under the supply of goods and service act 1982.
Ive seen a few cowboy damp contractors try to run away from a couple of jobs and get caught out big time.........If you mess up go back and fix it, if not you will have the repair bill from another so called specialist trying to charge the earth!
3 cases come to mind that were really bad, 1 was a chap that was an "approved contractor" he done a pre purchase survey on a large listed building with his rep, said it was damp all over and active woodworm, house sale collapsed and the vendor employed the services of a "Independent damp surveyor" the so called rising damp was from guttering leaks and a eroded drip throats, the active woodworm was Lyctus and obviously not active. He then successfully sued the approved contractor for his loss of sale........ The approved contractor had no Professional indemnity insurance for surveying!!!
Another bloke missed dry rot on a pre purchase survey and he got sued for the loss of value which was 40k.
A basement conversion that wasn't compliant to BS8102: 2009, 1 pump no battery back up, channel was cut into the slab no concrete under the 20mm stone, washed out foundations and the basement flooded........This was a cinema room and everything was KNACKERED
Don't trust anybody, many people see people as a way to make money, especially the reps. I have never seen a rep who is a qualified surveyor! Like any new job start at the bottom and work your way up and keep asking questions, the stupidest question is the 1 that isn't asked.
The reps don't guarantee the jobs, you do!
Ive seen a few cowboy damp contractors try to run away from a couple of jobs and get caught out big time.........If you mess up go back and fix it, if not you will have the repair bill from another so called specialist trying to charge the earth!
3 cases come to mind that were really bad, 1 was a chap that was an "approved contractor" he done a pre purchase survey on a large listed building with his rep, said it was damp all over and active woodworm, house sale collapsed and the vendor employed the services of a "Independent damp surveyor" the so called rising damp was from guttering leaks and a eroded drip throats, the active woodworm was Lyctus and obviously not active. He then successfully sued the approved contractor for his loss of sale........ The approved contractor had no Professional indemnity insurance for surveying!!!
Another bloke missed dry rot on a pre purchase survey and he got sued for the loss of value which was 40k.
A basement conversion that wasn't compliant to BS8102: 2009, 1 pump no battery back up, channel was cut into the slab no concrete under the 20mm stone, washed out foundations and the basement flooded........This was a cinema room and everything was KNACKERED
Don't trust anybody, many people see people as a way to make money, especially the reps. I have never seen a rep who is a qualified surveyor! Like any new job start at the bottom and work your way up and keep asking questions, the stupidest question is the 1 that isn't asked.
The reps don't guarantee the jobs, you do!
There's lot's of little behind the scenes tete a tete's like this going on.
Estate agents/contractors /developers. We uncovered a little scaremongering scam involving estate agent & damp/preservation contractor in a sluggish housing market. We were told to 'drop the keys' into the ea office and they would send an approved contractor to sort a non existent woodworm problem. When asked for a written appraisal we never heard another word about it.
We look at interior damp work as potential litigation always & never put our name to it.
Estate agents/contractors /developers. We uncovered a little scaremongering scam involving estate agent & damp/preservation contractor in a sluggish housing market. We were told to 'drop the keys' into the ea office and they would send an approved contractor to sort a non existent woodworm problem. When asked for a written appraisal we never heard another word about it.
We look at interior damp work as potential litigation always & never put our name to it.
Reps are salesmen right?
adapt
Active Member
The guarantees only cover a re-treatment nothing more so for me its not a problem. I do my work in such a way that I know there never will be a claim.
Unlike some companies that employ tom, dick and harry I do all my work myself with trusted tradesmen when needed, not had a claim in over 15 years of work so I must be doing something right ?
We have all seen the so called experts who get plugged by the estate agents and banks, they have flashy adverts and flashy vans.
They do say bullshit baffles brains
Unlike some companies that employ tom, dick and harry I do all my work myself with trusted tradesmen when needed, not had a claim in over 15 years of work so I must be doing something right ?
We have all seen the so called experts who get plugged by the estate agents and banks, they have flashy adverts and flashy vans.
They do say bullshit baffles brains
irish_spread
Private Member
Problem with damp proofing is that a lot of it involves sand and cement. Sand and cement eventually cracks which can cause problems. If you're serious about getting into the business you're probably better off setting up a Ltd liability co. . With no assets :RpS_sneaky:
LTD is the way forward, but you can't shut down knowingly if you have a claim and move money...you will be liable. Sand and cement if applied correctly will last longer than a 20 year guarantee. If you apply a lime plaster and guarantee it with a remedial dpc you could get into a claim through migration of salts.
irish_spread
Private Member
As above, but I would add that the majority of houses that have damp issues that can be treated with sand and cement are normally pre 1920's/30's.
Majority of these houses (especially in London ) have little or know foundations, 18" being common. The soft lime mortar between the bricks was used to allow for movement which was expected at the time. Bearing in mind your average house weighs 150 tons that 30mm of sand and cement you apply hasn't got much chance of flexing if the house sinks/rises an inch.
20 years is a long time to sit sweating waiting for minor subsidence to cause your garanteed tanking to fail
Majority of these houses (especially in London ) have little or know foundations, 18" being common. The soft lime mortar between the bricks was used to allow for movement which was expected at the time. Bearing in mind your average house weighs 150 tons that 30mm of sand and cement you apply hasn't got much chance of flexing if the house sinks/rises an inch.
20 years is a long time to sit sweating waiting for minor subsidence to cause your garanteed tanking to fail
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Your points about lime pointing-mortar are very true and I personally love working with lime, it is a fantastic product.
The majority of shrinkable clays are in the South East which covers London that is where most of the subsidence work is, I didn't know that lime doesn't crack if a building moves an inch!?!?!?!?! Why doesn't lime crack if its 30mm thick?
Tanking was generally used below ground in basement areas, I don't know anybody that actually does any tanking now- membrane is the way forward below ground!
The majority of shrinkable clays are in the South East which covers London that is where most of the subsidence work is, I didn't know that lime doesn't crack if a building moves an inch!?!?!?!?! Why doesn't lime crack if its 30mm thick?
Tanking was generally used below ground in basement areas, I don't know anybody that actually does any tanking now- membrane is the way forward below ground!
irish_spread
Private Member
Picked me me up wrong skimmy, the lime mortar was between the bricks, the render doesn't contain lime,just sand n cement n w/proofer. Render being brittle cracks easily.
i use s/c and waterproofer for penetrating and external.
I know what you mean re tanking but a lot of people won't pay for membrane systems, especially for basements used for storage etc that can be made reasonably dry by tanking
irish_spread
Private Member
Below ground I always point out to the customer that what I'm doing should cure the damp , definatly will reduce it but possibly will let some through.
I always recommend membranes etc but if they're only using basement to store bikes etc they aren't interested in spending 20k and generally go for the 3k option
adapt
Active Member
Skimmy I agree with your points and yeah maybe if the customer wants to pay for the guarantee then fair enough, but I know a fair few people stopped using the product suppliers guarantees because if they get a call back most companies blame the installation and after talking to a rep about a failed job where the product failed he told me that all they do is send some materials and a contractor has to apply it.
The only way to get the type of guarantees your talking about is to be a member of the PCA ? I personally have nothing against the organisation but I would rather trade from my own good name than hide behind a organisation.
Plus I was never really a follower in life, I tend to leave that to the sheeple.
And as for indemnity insurance for surveying, that's hard to get if your not a chartered surveyor and in RICS.
Do you have a recognised qualification in surveying ? National diploma or HNC ? I don't mean a PCA bit of paper
The only way to get the type of guarantees your talking about is to be a member of the PCA ? I personally have nothing against the organisation but I would rather trade from my own good name than hide behind a organisation.
Plus I was never really a follower in life, I tend to leave that to the sheeple.
And as for indemnity insurance for surveying, that's hard to get if your not a chartered surveyor and in RICS.
Do you have a recognised qualification in surveying ? National diploma or HNC ? I don't mean a PCA bit of paper
irish_spread
Private Member
Not got much experience in lime render as such, although I do use lime in external mixes (cement based) . My point was that normal sand and cement is brittle and any movement will cause it to crack. A good example is when you render a wall after taking a chimney out - always cracks. If you use hardwall etc there will be less cracking
adapt
Active Member
All buildings crack or move, it just depends by how much and what they are build on, not all houses are built on clay or have heave to worry about.
So tanking systems are usually designed for the certain ground conditions, tanking isn't a one system fits all.
But most property that needs work doing to it is usually quite old.
So tanking systems are usually designed for the certain ground conditions, tanking isn't a one system fits all.
But most property that needs work doing to it is usually quite old.
They will not send free products as the products will not fail if installed correctly, so they say 
The PCA is a great organisation and focussed on training, fair enough if you don't want to learn from some of the best in the industry. The way I look at things is different to you, I want to learn from the best of the best, and take in as much info as possible, and in my opinion the best are members of the PCA.
Indemnity insurance is available for surveying if you have PCA qualifications as it is a recognised national qualification.
My dad is an architect, so I have been fortunate to learn building pathology from him which is something you can't buy or learn from a book. I also have the CSRT and CSSW, its not just a piece of paper, it has a pass rate of only about 50%.
Do you have any qualifications then?
The PCA is a great organisation and focussed on training, fair enough if you don't want to learn from some of the best in the industry. The way I look at things is different to you, I want to learn from the best of the best, and take in as much info as possible, and in my opinion the best are members of the PCA.
Indemnity insurance is available for surveying if you have PCA qualifications as it is a recognised national qualification.
My dad is an architect, so I have been fortunate to learn building pathology from him which is something you can't buy or learn from a book. I also have the CSRT and CSSW, its not just a piece of paper, it has a pass rate of only about 50%.
Do you have any qualifications then?
irish_spread
Private Member
Me ? I've got a Goldstar skimming certificate and I'm halfway thru my PPL. Dunno about adapt tho :RpS_laugh:
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