London tower block fire

Maybe we should let the fire service resolve there investigations first, before apportioning blame or who will avoid blame.
 
gps said:
Maybe we should let the fire service resolve there investigations first, before apportioning blame or who will avoid blame.
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Why? It's a forum and we are discussing it the media are discussing it I'm sure you are aware? Notice May has done a runner using these victims as pawns.
 
flynnyman said:
They will look to share the blame and that will ultimately end up with a subby taking a share, they will just want to share one percent and that is their way of getting out of full responsibility.
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I suspect that most of the sub-contract firms that the individual subbies are on for will have folded before the first committee is formed. So the same thing will happen as with new developments, the main contractor will blame them, everyone will agree and say "it's a tragedy" and "lessons will be learned" etc etc. and on we go.

It's not a party political issue because it's been going on under every government (local and national) since the war and probably before. Remember the cinder block so much favoured in the '50s and 60s for single skin internal walls? Hundreds of people have died in fires because of them. As they were made of low temperature burnt ash they caught fire when the house was burning. As there were only a couple of people at a time killed nothing was ever done to sort the houses built like that. They just phased them out.
 
gps said:
Maybe we should let the fire service resolve there investigations first, before apportioning blame or who will avoid blame.
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I'm not really a betting man, but I'll put as large a stake as you want on what I and others are saying is the cause. I've seen with my own eyes what goes on with these jobs put out to tender by local authorities and housing associations. From low grade concrete, through staggeringly poor safety standards to 'brown envelope' inspections.
 
flynnyman said:
Why? It's a forum and we are discussing it the media are discussing it I'm sure you are aware? Notice May has done a runner using these victims as pawns.
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Your not discussing it, you are hanging people out to dry, before the fire service has give a cause and why it spread so quick.
 
flynnyman said:
Fair point, being in this game we all know there was a massive problem construction wise. I had an accident many years ago on a development of about 30 apartments, I was friends with the building inspector or in this case a member of a certain organisation who sign off most of the new builds. I asked him about the specific flat I had an accident in (I went through a floor that wasn't done properly) and had he passed it. His answer shocked me at the time and it was we don't check every flat we check one and treat the building as one i.e. Exit in and exit out.
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Did u land on your head by any chance :coffe:
 
gps said:
Your not discussing it, you are hanging people out to dry, before the fire service has give a cause and why it spread so quick.
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It's obvious how it spread so quickly and I haven't hung anyone out but as the investigation goes it will become clearer.
 
I researched a bit on the cladding method, and found that a popular method is to plant the sips onto some kind of batten, either wood or metal, in order that there will be a gap behind the panel and the building. It is apparent that in that type of installation, especially on a hi rise building, the gap acts as a chimney, drawing substantial amounts of air in. If that method was used on the tower in Kensington, then the rapid spread of flame might be explained.......perhaps.
 
imago said:
As @flynnyman rightly pointed out, on large sites for new build or refurbs they aren't checked by building control. The site will have a representative who is employed by, or contracted to, the main contractor. They will carry out visual sampling inspections.

Anyone who's worked on large sites will have seen the sort of stuff that goes on. For example, any ducts, pipes or cables that travel between floors is supposed to have fire glands. But they're expensive and take time to fit. So they're sometimes only fitted where the inspector can see and left out elsewhere. If there is a fire like this and someone is sought to take the blame then there will be a run around and ultimately no one will actually get pinned down.

Wall ties in the recent Scottish school new builds for example. No one is taking the blame, and the local authorities are paying to put right work they paid for originally. That work was 'inspected' and signed off as meeting the standards.
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Sorry but that in my eyes is a criminal...
 
Reports today say the fire was a fridge and the owner of the fridge packed his bags up and then raised the alarm with neighbours.....
 
gps said:
This guy has some serious questions to answer if that's the case.
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Ya cant really blame him. There is blame everywhere here. From the contractors, materials used, government and even the fire brigrade for telling people to stay indoors. Its just a f**k*d up situation and sadly people lost their lives. Sad how one goes to bed, families and next day they are all dead! Have herd some horrific stories about that fire and tbh, its pulled onmy heart strings.
 
hail hail said:
Ya cant really blame him. There is blame everywhere here. From the contractors, materials used, government and even the fire brigrade for telling people to stay indoors. Its just a f**k*d up situation and sadly people lost their lives. Sad how one goes to bed, families and next day they are all dead! Have herd some horrific stories about that fire and tbh, its pulled onmy heart strings.
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So he packs his bags before raising the alarm and you can't blame him ? Are you sure.

What I have found slightly odd is there was 120 odd flats but yet around 600 residents, that's a lot of people per flat
 
gps said:
So he packs his bags before raising the alarm and you can't blame him ? Are you sure.

What I have found slightly odd is there was 120 odd flats but yet around 600 residents, that's a lot of people per flat
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Its all speculation! Maybe he didnt have a phone or even his battery was dead and thats why he got the neighbours up and raised the alarm there but you know the media would leave them details out(if his phone was dead) just so someone could point teh finger. He cant be blamed for that. Infact, if it was me, id have got the f**k out of there aswell as soon as i raised teh alarm with someone. Quite explainable for that fella.
 
hail hail said:
Its all speculation! Maybe he didnt have a phone or even his battery was dead and thats why he got the neighbours up and raised the alarm there but you know the media would leave them details out(if his phone was dead) just so someone could point teh finger. He cant be blamed for that. Infact, if it was me, id have got the f**k out of there aswell as soon as i raised teh alarm with someone. Quite explainable for that fella.
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So packing your bags before raising the alarm is ok
 
gps said:
So he packs his bags before raising the alarm and you can't blame him ? Are you sure.

What I have found slightly odd is there was 120 odd flats but yet around 600 residents, that's a lot of people per flat
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That's because if a housing shortage are you starting to wake up?
 
flynnyman said:
And your point is?
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You happened to mention housing shortage and most are foreign waking up yet ?


There wasn't really a point to be fair just an observation, and this observation came about when I found the number of residents to flat ratio quite high
 
gps said:
You happened to mention housing shortage and most are foreign waking up yet ?


There wasn't really a point to be fair just an observation, and this observation came about when I found the number of residents to flat ratio quite high
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Don't assume everyone who doesn't have white skin is a foreigner tut tut
 
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