Patching and skimming for kitchen refurbs.

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imago said:
You can answer the question very easily if you think about it for a second. Of all the kitchens you've done in the last year or two, what would you say was the most frequent time it took to do? That is the answer to the question of average time taken to do one.

No one asked how long it'd take to do the kitchen at number 56 St Bernard's Road, Solihull.

So if you said to me how long would it take to build an extension I'd say it depends on the extension. If you said what's the average time for you to build an extension I'd say 8 to 10 weeks on the sort of stuff we do.
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Depending on size and hob knobs between a day and half to 3 days....... I dont collect material if poss lol
 
zombie said:
With the greatest of respect im sure we will be ok!

We must do at least 50 a year for a local firm, the point im making is everone jumps on the thread based on the couple of little mrs jones poxy kitchen jobs they do in a year which can be completley different to what other peoples work specs are.

People think kitchen and just assume little poxy room, but most that we have to sort out we would almist skim a house in same time due to all rhe different aspects to sort before even thinking about skimming etc.

I think the high end work that @imago is targetting is more complex work than just sorting couple of ex tiled walls and chases etc
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imago said:
How dense are you? Really, are you impared in some way?

Nothing you (or anyone else replying) has said anything to disagree with my first post/question :-



I have asked Lee, however he can only answer from himself in the same way that you can only answer how you do it. This forum is a good opportunity to see how others do things, then I, you, or anyone else can adapt bits to improve things if they want.



It's an impossible, stupid question? Well where does that leave all your answers?

Anyone with an ounce of brain and business sense can see it's a perfectly reasonable question. Any information you can get on how other people provide the same service or product to the business you run can be useful. So asking for an average job duration will give a benchmark which will speed up the time taken to quote.



So you're doing part of the work for free whether you collect evening, morning or at midnight. Yet you reckon you know how to run a business? Yet again you seem to be trying to substitute arrogance for ability. Anyone who doesn't think that they can learn from others, and help themselves by asking questions and looking critically at the way they do things themselves is a tw4t.

There's a wealth of knowledge on this forum which goes far beyond flinging sh1t up a wall as fast as you can. If the majority had replied to my original question with "it always takes me/us .." and then given a number quite different to my original "I'm working on two or three days in an empty room with all the first fix done." then I'd be happy to change my opinion and do things differently.

But no one, including you, has said anything different. The job you posted showing that you'd done a decent job in a day is fine, but that kitchen is about the size of my downstairs shower room. I wouldn't even be quoting for a room that small, it's not what I/we do. So your average is a two day job, plus collecting the materials the evening before. Which is EXACTLY what I said originally, but as you're an expert at running a business you seem to think the bit you do for free the evening before changes something. It does, but not in the way you'd like as it means you're doing work for free that you could/should be getting paid for.
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Don't come on a plasterers forum saying the kitchens you do are higher spec and calling people's work alright and belittling it. I'm not sure how to get it into your head that picking up materials isn't working for free. If I price myself at £200 a day and I'm home by 4 and my vans full of materials for the next day then I in effect got paid to get the materials. It's part of my working day. Maybe one day I'll be worthy or able to plaster in a high end house like your jobs.
imago said:
How dense are you? Really, are you impared in some way?

Nothing you (or anyone else replying) has said anything to disagree with my first post/question :-



I have asked Lee, however he can only answer from himself in the same way that you can only answer how you do it. This forum is a good opportunity to see how others do things, then I, you, or anyone else can adapt bits to improve things if they want.



It's an impossible, stupid question? Well where does that leave all your answers?

Anyone with an ounce of brain and business sense can see it's a perfectly reasonable question. Any information you can get on how other people provide the same service or product to the business you run can be useful. So asking for an average job duration will give a benchmark which will speed up the time taken to quote.



So you're doing part of the work for free whether you collect evening, morning or at midnight. Yet you reckon you know how to run a business? Yet again you seem to be trying to substitute arrogance for ability. Anyone who doesn't think that they can learn from others, and help themselves by asking questions and looking critically at the way they do things themselves is a tw4t.

There's a wealth of knowledge on this forum which goes far beyond flinging sh1t up a wall as fast as you can. If the majority had replied to my original question with "it always takes me/us .." and then given a number quite different to my original "I'm working on two or three days in an empty room with all the first fix done." then I'd be happy to change my opinion and do things differently.

But no one, including you, has said anything different. The job you posted showing that you'd done a decent job in a day is fine, but that kitchen is about the size of my downstairs shower room. I wouldn't even be quoting for a room that small, it's not what I/we do. So your average is a two day job, plus collecting the materials the evening before. Which is EXACTLY what I said originally, but as you're an expert at running a business you seem to think the bit you do for free the evening before changes something. It does, but not in the way you'd like as it means you're doing work for free that you could/should be getting paid for.
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Youve come on a plasterers forum, imply we might 'smash it out' call someone's work 'alright' and say the kitchens you do are higher end than perhaps we do and wonder why your getting shitty replies. Maybe some day we'll get up to your level of clientele
 
lurpak said:
Usually people who give it loads online turn out to be fragile little bitches in person.
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It's not something I've come across in the building industry tbh. Most people will say their piece and others can agree or disagree if they see fit. It's rare that blood and snot flies in the real, but if you're worried about that outcome then it's best to avoid arguments in the first place.
 
The amount of factors to obtain an average for kitchen plastering is ridiculous.

Bedroom would be ok as generally they’re straight forward, maybe an artex ceiling and ok walls (generally)

Kitchen on the other hand is more likely to vary in size, often they’re extended. Always the most butchered room during rip outs.

Then, of course there is the area. If its a predominately council area in doncaster we can assume the kitchens are smallish, on an average.


Another area might have bigger houses , private estates, more money. Thus having bigger fancier kitchens.

You can’t get an average from a few different spreads in completely different locations.
 
zombie said:
Who the f**k taught you to work like that!!!!
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Self taught , nearly 40 years
I think you said similar when I posted back to flat and over walls of inconsistent suck, everyone else did ,
High quality results for hours spent
Don't always do it , just depends on job
You can all have a good laugh I don't mind
Don't knock it till you tried it
 
@imago for clariry ive just done a quick calculation with my very small brain.

I started a contract way back in 1998 for a kitchen firm that we still complete work for now.

So based on 50 a year thats 1000 in last 20years!

They block book us Wednesday - Friday on even the smallest of jobs to ensure if any problems there is time to overcome & correct and equaly so we are not down on our money to try and book another job in on say the friday if finished early as to short notice.

Beyond that we have a good respectful mutual agreemrnt on any additional days required will be covered at £x amount per

Hope that helps!
 
imago said:
It's not something I've come across in the building industry tbh. Most people will say their piece and others can agree or disagree if they see fit. It's rare that blood and snot flies in the real, but if you're worried about that outcome then it's best to avoid arguments in the first place.
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I’m far from worried buddy. I’m politely telling you that if you want to call me a t**t, and infer I’m stupid, I’m only 20 mins away. I’m not getting personal with you, I’m trying to tell you that the question is impossible to answer accurately unless you add some more factors.
 
Keegan88 said:
Don't come on a plasterers forum saying the kitchens you do are higher spec and calling people's work alright and belittling it. I'm not sure how to get it into your head that picking up materials isn't working for free. If I price myself at £200 a day and I'm home by 4 and my vans full of materials for the next day then I in effect got paid to get the materials. It's part of my working day. Maybe one day I'll be worthy or able to plaster in a high end house like your jobs.
Youve come on a plasterers forum, imply we might 'smash it out' call someone's work 'alright' and say the kitchens you do are higher end than perhaps we do and wonder why your getting shitty replies. Maybe some day we'll get up to your level of clientele
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I'll come onto a plastering forum and say/ask what I like. Who appointed you to decide what is or isn't acceptable? I haven't "implied" anything, I've either said it outright or that's the way you've taken it. If you don't like the thread, don't read it.

You run your business however you want, I couldn't give a monkey's. If it works for you that's just dandy.
 
Havagojo said:
Self taught , nearly 40 years
I think you said similar when I posted back to flat and over walls of inconsistent suck, everyone else did ,
High quality results for hours spent
Don't always do it , just depends on job
You can all have a good laugh I don't mind
Don't knock it till you tried it
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Float in the morning skim in the afternoon would save you a hell of a lot time & effort.

The thread i think your meaning would be if you could not control suction in area if realy excessive.

Then yes you could put a realy tight coat of skim over let pull in then re pva!
 
lurpak said:
I’m far from worried buddy. I’m politely telling you that if you want to call me a t**t, and infer I’m stupid, I’m only 20 mins away. I’m not getting personal with you, I’m trying to tell you that the question is impossible to answer accurately unless you add some more factors.
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Read the reply immediately above yours and you can see that it isn't impossible.

As for the rest of it, you know where I am so if you feel it'd be better discussed face to face, or you take exception then you're more than welcome to nip over.
 
zombie said:
@imago for clariry ive just done a quick calculation with my very small brain.

I started a contract way back in 1998 for a kitchen firm that we still complete work for now.

So based on 50 a year thats 1000 in last 20years!

They block book us Wednesday - Friday on even the smallest of jobs to ensure if any problems there is time to overcome & correct and equaly so we are not down on our money to try and book another job in on say the friday if finished early as to short notice.

Beyond that we have a good respectful mutual agreemrnt on any additional days required will be covered at £x amount per

Hope that helps!
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It's how I was looking at it at the beginning of the thread. It makes sense to me, but others seem to think it's not the way to do things.
 
lurpak said:
I’m far from worried buddy. I’m politely telling you that if you want to call me a t**t, and infer I’m stupid, I’m only 20 mins away. I’m not getting personal with you, I’m trying to tell you that the question is impossible to answer accurately unless you add some more factors.
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Im about 2.5 hours away and id of drove through night to meet you other week yer C.U.N.T
 
Stop the name calling and it’s all ok.

Also just trust in your plasterer. He’ll take a look and tell you how many days it will take him.
 
lurpak said:
Stop the name calling and it’s all ok.

Also just trust in your plasterer. He’ll take a look and tell you how many days it will take him.
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But that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid, or at the very least cut down on. If every quote I do requires Lee, or any other plasterer, to come and look at each job then it turns into a circus.

With a base figure of three days it will operate as @zombie described. I can take it that there's three days of plastering, then add time for anything different. Or if it's way over the top for some reason then I can get him/them over.
 
Your business so it’s up to you how you run it, of course.

Unless you’re doing 5 kitchen quotes a day, it’s going to be much less hassle to just let the spread look at it instead of having to f**k his dairy up because it’s a day longer or shorter.
 
lurpak said:
Your business so it’s up to you how you run it, of course.

Unless you’re doing 5 kitchen quotes a day, it’s going to be much less hassle to just let the spread look at it instead of having to f**k his dairy up because it’s a day longer or shorter.
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This is taking up way too much of everyone's time, read @zombie 's description of how it works. No one's dairy gets fcuked up.
 
imago said:
This is taking up way too much of everyone's time, read @zombie 's description of how it works. No one's dairy gets fcuked up.
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I did, and that system will work for a kitchen company installing 10 kitchens a week. They can afford to pay zombie 3 days regardless, and if only takes 2 they might have bits and bobs for him on 3.

I don’t see the system working for someone just doing the odd kitchen, or a kitchen in a full refurb. You’re not a kichen company.

The way it works is bring a spread to tell you how many days. So simple!
 
lurpak said:
I did, and that system will work for a kitchen company installing 10 kitchens a week. They can afford to pay zombie 3 days regardless, and if only takes 2 they might have bits and bobs for him on 3.

I don’t see the system working for someone just doing the odd kitchen, or a kitchen in a full refurb. You’re not a kichen company.

The way it works is bring a spread to tell you how many days. So simple!
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It works if you only do one kitchen a year or 10 a week because you change a variable into a fixed cost.

You quote for a kitchen with the plastering as say £650 materials and labour. If it's done in a day and a half using half the amount of materials then the plasterer gets a day off and whoever's running the job gets whatever the change is on the materials not required. Same for the sparks, gas etc.

What could be simpler than that?

The alternative approach means that three or four people have to visit the house to end up with a single quote.
 
imago said:
It works if you only do one kitchen a year or 10 a week because you change a variable into a fixed cost.

You quote for a kitchen with the plastering as say £650 materials and labour. If it's done in a day and a half using half the amount of materials then the plasterer gets a day off and whoever's running the job gets whatever the change is on the materials not required. Same for the sparks, gas etc.

What could be simpler than that?

The alternative approach means that three or four people have to visit the house to end up with a single quote.
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One of our builders rolls like this . Says got you a job 2 to three days if ye done I two I.ll still give ye three.......I like that builder
 
Simple yes, right no. You’re working on guesstimates. Guessing how many days for the spread, spark and plumber based on some inaccurate average off a forum.

So either the customer over pays or you lose. Or you get lucky and guess all 3 correctly.

Great business plan lol
 
John j said:
One of our builders rolls like this . Says got you a job 2 to three days if ye done I two I.ll still give ye three.......I like that builder
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Which is another benefit to working that way. You're happy to work for him, so who are you going to go with if two jobs come up, one with him and one with someone else?

Or if another builder who chips you down to the last penny asks for help when a job runs over, vs that builder asking the same?
 
lurpak said:
Simple yes, right no. You’re working on guesstimates. Guessing how many days for the spread, spark and plumber based on some inaccurate average off a forum.

So either the customer over pays or you lose. Or you get lucky and guess all 3 correctly.

Great business plan lol
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You said you'd do it in one day, or two maximum? So you'd win by a day in every case according to your theory. Or are you changing your tune now to say it'd take you four?

You're just talking nonsense now. Either to argue for the sake of it or you just don't get it. Whatever the reason I don't see the point in dragging it out any longer. You're happy with the way you work and what you earn and so am I. So I'll leave it at that.
 
lurpak said:
Simple yes, right no. You’re working on guesstimates. Guessing how many days for the spread, spark and plumber based on some inaccurate average off a forum.

So either the customer over pays or you lose. Or you get lucky and guess all 3 correctly.

Great business plan lol
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I find most builders have a good way of guessing over lol
 
imago said:
You said you'd do it in one day, or two maximum? So you'd win by a day in every case according to your theory. Or are you changing your tune now to say it'd take you four?

You're just talking nonsense now. Either to argue for the sake of it or you just don't get it. Whatever the reason I don't see the point in dragging it out any longer. You're happy with the way you work and what you earn and so am I. So I'll leave it at that.
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This isn’t about me tho.. yes I’d win as a plasterer.

But if I was playing builder I’d be risking by guessing how long things take when I have no clue. If you guess wrong on all the trades you could be over quoting by a grand, and potentially losing the job to somone who has experience and doesn’t need to guess.

Agree to disagree as i cba now
 
Most for me seemed to be kitchen diner knock throughs so 3 days and if you get a set on first day then happy days
 
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