Poor standard of funded work

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Yep your preaching to the converted here.
its seen a semi skilled trade now, there is ultimately your problem,I did a 4 year apprenticeship doesn't count for anything, it is what it is, you need to adapt to this and move with the times, if you don't like it jump off the ride and do something different.
I make a good living rendering, admittedly with a good deal of Hasstle and ball ache but the day I get fully fed up with it. Is the day I do something different.
 
Sodbuster said:
I have to agree that there's so much poor workmanship being done regarding this!
i was doing this for a while but had to stop cause of bad rates....one contractor we worked for had fellow bringing in gangs of Eastern Europeans every week doing this.... Some of them had never worked on sites before.
when I asked him why he was doing this he was like "gotta try and find good workers"
some of the work that was done was so bad it was unbelievable..... Back yards not cleaned... No windows or doors washed down afterwards... Unbelievable!!!!
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They all moan about having to look to eastern Europeans to find good workers. They are playing ignorant to the fact that you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

They don't pay tradesman's money they pay wages equal to warehouse cleaner. You don't get skilled men that way.
 
flynnyman said:
But I also have real papers for plastering :) which helps
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Right on brother.


I do applicator training for a manufacturer and the first thing I ask is everyone competent plasterers. They should be otherwise they shouldn't be in the room but as it happens the answers are amusing.

Some lads you see when you ask em to step up and have a try.....you know they have never had a trowel in their hands ever.... Shocking really. I am supposed to nominate these people for applicator cards....

I got my Ewi papers before all the green deal pipe dream talk for a bam job the lads had to have trade specific cards. They actually told us if it says plastering on the back it was no good hahaha
 
Just out of interest what's the difference between dashing onto an insulation system compared with onto a masonry substrate?
I'm currently fitting my first ever insulation system (on my own place) and having fixed the boards and applied the basecoat it has seemed a breeze so far.
 
essexandy said:
Just out of interest what's the difference between dashing onto an insulation system compared with onto a masonry substrate?
I'm currently fitting my first ever insulation system (on my own place) and having fixed the boards and applied the basecoat it has seemed a breeze so far.
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No much of a diffrence to be honest
The top coat will sit longer before you can hit it on a EWI than a overcoat job
 
Great subject, I have just about had enough of the dick head trades that think that they can come over to ewi an make a killin, with their one day courses stupid F*****g nvq "we'll give you the answers to the test then watch you put 2 boards on a gable, oh does your labourer want the same certificate get him in, get them all in and now your all qualified for wall treatments and insulation, I am F*****g embarrassed to even tell people I have it as it just says I bent over and got it dry from the industry too. I've been in ewi for 22yrs from cleanin windows to learning the job from the bottom up and like a lot of installers I've read on here take so much pride in the work I undertake, ewi takes a lot of skill from pricing and preparation to execution and completion (not to mention being a part time meteorologist). If this industry doesn't wake up to the shite that they have helped on to site we'll be going down the same route as cwi when it first started years ago, bad workmanship put it back 10 yrs. what ever happened to system reps being sneaky little T***s, turning up unannounced to test your mix and fixing spaces and stressys (permarock) or checking you had enough depth widgets and stabiliser on wall (m.r)........Happy days!!
 
essexandy said:
Just out of interest what's the difference between dashing onto an insulation system compared with onto a masonry substrate?
I'm currently fitting my first ever insulation system (on my own place) and having fixed the boards and applied the basecoat it has seemed a breeze so far.
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All the detail in the boars and base mate. Windows openings etc. Once your past that its the same. Plain sailing
 
I have to agree with some of the thoughts on this thread and also disagree with others.

Quality will always be determined by the level of supervision afforded to a job, costs however, in the main will be determined by market forces.
 
cclarkrender said:
Great subject, I have just about had enough of the dick head trades that think that they can come over to ewi an make a killin, with their one day courses stupid F*****g nvq "we'll give you the answers to the test then watch you put 2 boards on a gable, oh does your labourer want the same certificate get him in, get them all in and now your all qualified for wall treatments and insulation, I am F*****g embarrassed to even tell people I have it as it just says I bent over and got it dry from the industry too. I've been in ewi for 22yrs from cleanin windows to learning the job from the bottom up and like a lot of installers I've read on here take so much pride in the work I undertake, ewi takes a lot of skill from pricing and preparation to execution and completion (not to mention being a part time meteorologist). If this industry doesn't wake up to the shite that they have helped on to site we'll be going down the same route as cwi when it first started years ago, bad workmanship put it back 10 yrs. what ever happened to system reps being sneaky little T***s, turning up unannounced to test your mix and fixing spaces and stressys (permarock) or checking you had enough depth widgets and stabiliser on wall (m.r)........Happy days!!
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Colin ha ha its mark
 
Poles are least of the problems. The other EU are doing scary stuff.
Employers fault mind you not theirs. Fat cats want cheap labour and I defy any who actually thinks they are harder working. If they wanted enough money to live and retire In UK then they wouldnt get any jobs.
 
Regarding EWI can anyone recommend were I can put some of the lads through an EWI course to achieve NVQ 2.
Would like them to come to us (on site)
 
Search net if that's all you need for your lads. They give em away like sweets. You will find an agency in no time chomping to get you nvq
 
There are companies that offer free training courses, only one day as an introduction to the systems and materials.
You cannot hold these companies responsible for the skill levels of the operatives put in front of them. After 2-3 hours practical training and theory we hope they have gained a little knowledge on the system and how the materials should be worked, if there employer puts them on site and lets em loose who is at fault?
 
Coriolanus said:
There are companies that offer free training courses, only one day as an introduction to the systems and materials.
You cannot hold these companies responsible for the skill levels of the operatives put in front of them. After 2-3 hours practical training and theory we hope they have gained a little knowledge on the system and how the materials should be worked, if there employer puts them on site and lets em loose who is at fault?
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Of course the trainers are to blame, they are the people handing out applicators licences that employers take as the person being competent. 2-3 hours practical for ewi takes the mick, it should be a week long course with a pass/fail at the end. Then a first job assessment before you can get your full applicators licence and revoked at your first major cock up. It might seem a bit over the top, but if you take into account the scale of the problem highlighted by members here and the ease at which these gobshites can move from one company to the next with complete anonymity needs to be stopped. Years ago the industry was that small a bad name followed you and companys would steer clear, nowadays there are that many companys, small builders, plumbers, roofers, sparkys, and joiners how want to jump on the cash cow you can have a bad rep and work for years cos most of them haven't got a clue either.
 
I totally agree with you regarding handing out "applicator licences" like confetti, we don`t.
The criteria for funded work does require installers to be recognised by the system holder, most installers doing funded work will be PAS 2030 audited/compliant, this requires the employer to ensure there employees are suitably trained and qualified in the application of EWI.
Not sure what ratio is supposed to be deemed competent workers, in an ideal world we would all be time served and all projects would be nil defects, unfortunately the scramble caused by the ECO work has caused the influx of untrained operatives.
 
Some pictures of bad work.
This is my sister in law's housing association house. I called there today to have a look before they apply the top coat. The firm doing the application is not local.
 
Poor standard of funded workPoor standard of funded workPoor standard of funded workPoor standard of funded workPoor standard of funded work

Some more.
 
The usual sub standard sh1te you get from mass turnover companies.

I have some shocking pics from inspections I have carried out but I can't show them for obvious reasons.

So Tell me then how pas2030 Is a valid scheme and how it is working because this will have been a pas co. Deri who did this.

What a crock of s###

First rain and its going to gush in
 
The work is for a local housing association, they have dropped their prices for ewi so a lot of the quality installers are not interested now.
I don't know who this gang of installers are all I know is that they are coming from The midlands to work here (west wales)!
 
Arti said:
Av never done EWI, but how do they get this work signed off ??
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That's exactly what I was thinking today. I had heard that the work was substandard but I was thinking it can't be terrible because it needs to be passed. Certainly had my eyes opened today.

The last Rockshield job I did was for this association 3 yrs back and a bloke from Rockwool came down and checked the work.
I don't do work for the housing association any more because they require you to have an NVQ which I don't have. But I'm pretty sure my work is streets ahead of these guys!
 
Deri said:
That's exactly what I was thinking today. I had heard that the work was substandard but I was thinking it can't be terrible because it needs to be passed. Certainly had my eyes opened today.

The last Rockshield job I did was for this association 3 yrs back and a bloke from Rockwool came down and checked the work.
I don't do work for the housing association any more because they require you to have an NVQ which I don't have. But I'm pretty sure my work is streets ahead of these guys!
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Your not missin out to pal trust me.
Ewi is dead. Make your money elsewhere.

Reps can't cover all the installs as its sales driven on this work and the high turnarounds mean they hardly view any.

Some manufacturers don't even drive Ewi now where as a few yes back all the drive was thermal.

A combination of low buying prices even for material. Messed about funding schemes by govt. And poor work and half of em are now banking on a recovery of new build.

I even had one tell me they want out of funded ewi
 
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