Reasonable?

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I have an existing customer who's thinking about having one maybe two interior stud walls removed from the kitchen diner which is on the third floor of a four storey house. He wants a quote and opinions/advice, which I'll do.

I know from previous experience there that there will be heating pipes, alarm cables, power cables and Christ knows what else running inside the wall.

So I've offered him two choices for the quote:-

1) I'll have a look and make an educated guess. Then if there's stuff that has to be moved, re-routed or something that can't be shifted he'll be looking at extra costs, building a false pillar or whatever. Basically, "we'll see what we find when we start dismantling and go from there". Usual

2) I can scan the wall and tell him exactly what's in it, (plastic pipes, metal pipes, cables, ducts, trunking, timber studs etc) how deep, and where they run to the millimetre so he can make decisions up front.

Obviously option 2) is the best, but the scanner is seven hundred quids worth. So I've told him that I'll be charging £50:00 + VAT to use it per wall with the write up.

I don't think that's unfair, but wondered what you lot think?

This is all coming from me thinking about how much expensive kit I have that ends up getting used for free to the customer. Not so much putting up prices to account for it, more charging differing amounts for the use of it.
 
imago said:
I have an existing customer who's thinking about having one maybe two interior stud walls removed from the kitchen diner which is on the third floor of a four storey house. He wants a quote and opinions/advice, which I'll do.

I know from previous experience there that there will be heating pipes, alarm cables, power cables and Christ knows what else running inside the wall.

So I've offered him two choices for the quote:-

1) I'll have a look and make an educated guess. Then if there's stuff that has to be moved, re-routed or something that can't be shifted he'll be looking at extra costs, building a false pillar or whatever. Basically, "we'll see what we find when we start dismantling and go from there". Usual

2) I can scan the wall and tell him exactly what's in it, (plastic pipes, metal pipes, cables, ducts, trunking, timber studs etc) how deep, and where they run to the millimetre so he can make decisions up front.

Obviously option 2) is the best, but the scanner is seven hundred quids worth. So I've told him that I'll be charging £50:00 + VAT to use it per wall with the write up.

I don't think that's unfair, but wondered what you lot think?

This is all coming from me thinking about how much expensive kit I have that ends up getting used for free to the customer. Not so much putting up prices to account for it, more charging differing amounts for the use of it.
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Most of my jobs I can quote off a picture tbh but this year I have started charging for certain quotes

No 2 vote
 
imago said:
I have an existing customer who's thinking about having one maybe two interior stud walls removed from the kitchen diner which is on the third floor of a four storey house. He wants a quote and opinions/advice, which I'll do.

I know from previous experience there that there will be heating pipes, alarm cables, power cables and Christ knows what else running inside the wall.

So I've offered him two choices for the quote:-

1) I'll have a look and make an educated guess. Then if there's stuff that has to be moved, re-routed or something that can't be shifted he'll be looking at extra costs, building a false pillar or whatever. Basically, "we'll see what we find when we start dismantling and go from there". Usual

2) I can scan the wall and tell him exactly what's in it, (plastic pipes, metal pipes, cables, ducts, trunking, timber studs etc) how deep, and where they run to the millimetre so he can make decisions up front.

Obviously option 2) is the best, but the scanner is seven hundred quids worth. So I've told him that I'll be charging £50:00 + VAT to use it per wall with the write up.

I don't think that's unfair, but wondered what you lot think?

This is all coming from me thinking about how much expensive kit I have that ends up getting used for free to the customer. Not so much putting up prices to account for it, more charging differing amounts for the use of it.
Click to expand...
Option 2 is fine and if you don't mind me asking buddy what scanner you using the hilti?
 
Go with what you see on walls
To move on quote unseen extra . Plus you can judge better Once pb is off where to re route
 
imago said:
I have an existing customer who's thinking about having one maybe two interior stud walls removed from the kitchen diner which is on the third floor of a four storey house. He wants a quote and opinions/advice, which I'll do.

I know from previous experience there that there will be heating pipes, alarm cables, power cables and Christ knows what else running inside the wall.

So I've offered him two choices for the quote:-

1) I'll have a look and make an educated guess. Then if there's stuff that has to be moved, re-routed or something that can't be shifted he'll be looking at extra costs, building a false pillar or whatever. Basically, "we'll see what we find when we start dismantling and go from there". Usual

2) I can scan the wall and tell him exactly what's in it, (plastic pipes, metal pipes, cables, ducts, trunking, timber studs etc) how deep, and where they run to the millimetre so he can make decisions up front.

Obviously option 2) is the best, but the scanner is seven hundred quids worth. So I've told him that I'll be charging £50:00 + VAT to use it per wall with the write up.

I don't think that's unfair, but wondered what you lot think?

This is all coming from me thinking about how much expensive kit I have that ends up getting used for free to the customer. Not so much putting up prices to account for it, more charging differing amounts for the use of it.
Click to expand...
The problem with option 2 is if you do actually miss something it will then become your problem
 
Builderboi said:
Option 2 is fine and if you don't mind me asking buddy what scanner you using the hilti?
Click to expand...

I don't mind, I should have mentioned it in the post. It's the Bosch Link Removed

They are the cat's ass, and very accurate, but at a price. :eek:
 
superspread said:
The problem with option 2 is if you do actually miss something it will then become your problem
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Yeah, which is partly why I want to start charging when I use it. As long as you take your time and work along the wall top to bottom in metre wide sections at a time you can't miss anything. Even with making notes it takes about 15 - 20 minutes depending on how much you find and have to write down.
 
The main problem with the layout of a place like this is it'd be possible to find pipes that you can't move without destroying half the house. Some of the heating pipes run through the joists top to bottom (fcuking plumbers!) above and below the stud wall they run in. So to divert them you'd have to have the floor up and ceiling down as well as chase another wall to run them in. I've no problem doing it, but it can turn a coupe of days into a couple of weeks, plus the expense of the additional materials.
 
imago said:
Yeah, which is partly why I want to start charging when I use it. As long as you take your time and work along the wall top to bottom in metre wide sections at a time you can't miss anything. Even with making notes it takes about 15 - 20 minutes depending on how much you find and have to write down.
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Unless you have an x-ray machine I wouldn't take anything as gospel
 
I thought it was quite easy to work out where wires and pipes are in most stud walls Coz you can see the switches and rads, fair enough there are surprises. Unless she has plenty of money I would just go with the first quote, use your equipment and price accordingly, but I wouldn't give her the heads up to tell the next bloke. I did a similar job years ago and it was a new build townhouse with what seemed like loads of doors, what you have to watch on these is the ceilings should of been double skinned and in the odd rooms they weren't so when you knocked through this added extra work. Also to be aware of which I'm sure you are is removing walls and doorways will have an effect on the fire regs so something to be aware of :)
 
superspread said:
Unless you have an x-ray machine I wouldn't take anything as gospel
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That's pretty much what it is. They were developed for scanning concrete, similar to ground penetrating radar. Have a look at the videos for it and you'll see what I mean.

This is one of a few on there.
 
flynnyman said:
I thought it was quite easy to work out where wires and pipes are in most stud walls Coz you can see the switches and rads, fair enough there are surprises.
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Mostly yes, but not when the outlets or rads aren't in the same room or even on the same floor.
 
imago said:
That's pretty much what it is. They were developed for scanning concrete, similar to ground penetrating radar. Have a look at the videos for it and you'll see what I mean.

This is one of a few on there.
Click to expand...

Like a geo fiz off the time team :)
 
flynnyman said:
I thought it was quite easy to work out where wires and pipes are in most stud walls Coz you can see the switches and rads, fair enough there are surprises. Unless she has plenty of money I would just go with the first quote, use your equipment and price accordingly, but I wouldn't give her the heads up to tell the next bloke. I did a similar job years ago and it was a new build townhouse with what seemed like loads of doors, what you have to watch on these is the ceilings should of been double skinned and in the odd rooms they weren't so when you knocked through this added extra work. Also to be aware of which I'm sure you are is removing walls and doorways will have an effect on the fire regs so something to be aware of :)
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You Builderman now?
 
imago said:
Mostly yes, but not when the outlets or rads aren't in the same room or even on the same floor.
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If your charging them for that info you might be giving the next bloke a better chance of securing it once the client has the info? I know where your coming from maybe even take the cost back off the price?
 
flynnyman said:
If your charging them for that info you might be giving the next bloke a better chance of securing it once the client has the info? I know where your coming from maybe even take the cost back off the price?
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I suppose that's possible, but then if they've paid for the info they can do what they want with it.

The other way of looking at it is that they may question why the next bloke hasn't got one, didn't mention that the cost may increase, or did say it might increase leaving them with no idea how much the work will cost in the end.
 
looks a handy bit of tech there(y)..

Can it detect motorbikes in lofts tho?.......,,










Sorry larry:oops:
.....
 
Fatarm said:
looks a handy bit of tech there(y)..

Can it detect motorbikes in lofts tho?.......,,










Sorry larry:oops:
.....
Click to expand...

It could, but you wouldn't need one for that. Just look for a bowed ceiling and it'll either be a motorbike in the loft, or the ceiling's been overboarded. ;)
 
imago said:
I suppose that's possible, but then if they've paid for the info they can do what they want with it.

The other way of looking at it is that they may question why the next bloke hasn't got one, didn't mention that the cost may increase, or did say it might increase leaving them with no idea how much the work will cost in the end.
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But your only gonna get £100 quid, I suppose it pays for your time,
 
flynnyman said:
But your only gonna get £100 quid, I suppose it pays for your time,
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The way I'm looking at it is it's better than the alternative of getting nothing for using a bit of kit that cost me a chunk. If I was using it to do something to make my job easier then there wouldn't be a charge, but in this instance it will remove uncertainty for the customer and potentially save them money and disruption.
 
imago said:
The way I'm looking at it is it's better than the alternative of getting nothing for using a bit of kit that cost me a chunk. If I was using it to do something to make my job easier then there wouldn't be a charge, but in this instance it will remove uncertainty for the customer and potentially save them money and disruption.
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Which they may spend elsewhere, it does look professional and gives the customer a sense they are dealing with a professional but for £100 I think I would keep the info to myself then If you lose the job to someone else they can charge extras or not get payed anymore. I would put your findings in the quote maybe but wouldn't point them to it, maybe show them when you are doing it. i have been back to a job more than once to price it especially if they haven't started stripping and rewired, i always tell them it's one price and stays that way and they only pay once which usually gets me the job.
 
flynnyman said:
Which they may spend elsewhere, it does look professional and gives the customer a sense they are dealing with a professional but for £100 I think I would keep the info to myself then If you lose the job to someone else they can charge extras or not get payed anymore. I would put your findings in the quote maybe but wouldn't point them to it, maybe show them when you are doing it. i have been back to a job more than once to price it especially if they haven't started stripping and rewired, i always tell them it's one price and stays that way and they only pay once which usually gets me the job.
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What you say makes sense, but whilst I can't be certain, I don't think they'll be using anyone else or even getting other quotes. We did a £25k job for them last year, and two of their neighbours want similar work this Autumn without getting other quotes.

I work the same way, I don't do estimates only quotes. I detail what I'll do, and what it'll cost. If something unexpected crops up then that's my problem not theirs, so they shouldn't be asked to pay for it.
 
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