Render on a Victorian Terrace

P

plasterhelp

New Member
Would really appreciate some help on this dilemma

My house currently has a (badly done) sand & cement flick render on it & the paint is coming off in sheets in places. It hasn’t blown anywhere we can see & there are no signs of water penetration. Every plasterer we've had round has said the render is in decent condition.

Lots of websites advised a Natural Hydraulic Lime render for a property of this age, so after speaking to lots of plasterers I found one that has worked with NHL before through the company that is doing some work on the roof.

We were all set to go, when the roofer (who’s a friend of a friend) forwarded on a private message he got from the plasterer that said while he was happy to replace the render, he thought I was ‘a bit mad’ for paying for a whole new render. He said if it was him, he would just strip the paint & put a coat of tyrolean/silicone aggregate on top for now in case there were any hairline cracks once the paint is removed and replace the render when it actually needed replacing.

So I’m a bit stuck now & not sure what the best plan of action is. One the one hand, I’ve read that sand & cement is really bad for the brickwork so I’m thinking I should get it off as soon as possible - also don’t want to duplicate work, paying for a repair now and a replacement in a few years (have no idea how old the render actually is) when I could just replace now. A new render would obviously look much nicer too.

On the other hand, a touch up is a quarter of the price so it’s definitely tempting. The current quote for work on the roof & a whole new lime render will wipe out most of my savings.

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether sand & cement is so bad it should be taken off ASAP? And whether I would be paying even more to remove the tyrolean/silicone if I needed to do it in a few years, than I would for taking the sand & cement off now?

Thanks!
 
plasterhelp said:
Would really appreciate some help on this dilemma

My house currently has a (badly done) sand & cement flick render on it & the paint is coming off in sheets in places. It hasn’t blown anywhere we can see & there are no signs of water penetration. Every plasterer we've had round has said the render is in decent condition.

Lots of websites advised a Natural Hydraulic Lime render for a property of this age, so after speaking to lots of plasterers I found one that has worked with NHL before through the company that is doing some work on the roof.

We were all set to go, when the roofer (who’s a friend of a friend) forwarded on a private message he got from the plasterer that said while he was happy to replace the render, he thought I was ‘a bit mad’ for paying for a whole new render. He said if it was him, he would just strip the paint & put a coat of tyrolean/silicone aggregate on top for now in case there were any hairline cracks once the paint is removed and replace the render when it actually needed replacing.

So I’m a bit stuck now & not sure what the best plan of action is. One the one hand, I’ve read that sand & cement is really bad for the brickwork so I’m thinking I should get it off as soon as possible - also don’t want to duplicate work, paying for a repair now and a replacement in a few years (have no idea how old the render actually is) when I could just replace now. A new render would obviously look much nicer too.

On the other hand, a touch up is a quarter of the price so it’s definitely tempting. The current quote for work on the roof & a whole new lime render will wipe out most of my savings.

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether sand & cement is so bad it should be taken off ASAP? And whether I would be paying even more to remove the tyrolean/silicone if I needed to do it in a few years, than I would for taking the sand & cement off now?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
what age is the house
 
The Hobo said:
if its not a cavity wall then I would not put sand and cement on go for a breathable render system /but I personally would not put cement on common brick its too hard
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply! The sand & cement is already on there (put by the previous owner), and is currently not letting any water in.

Would you remove it anyway to replace with lime?
 
With out being rude i think the guy who has gave you a estimate has no idea what he is talking about tyrolean on top would make the problem worse no experienced lime plasterer would advise that!
I look at jobs weekly where plasterers claim to have lime knowledge just because they add a bucket of hydrated lime to their mix.
Also if your house is 1871 I would avoid the NHL route and get a experienced plasterer to do traditional 3 coat work
 
limeplastering said:
With out being rude i think the guy who has gave you a estimate has no idea what he is talking about tyrolean on top would make the problem worse no experienced lime plasterer would advise that!
I look at jobs weekly where plasterers claim to have lime knowledge just because they add a bucket of hydrated lime to their mix.
Also if your house is 1871 I would avoid the NHL route and get a experienced plasterer to do traditional 3 coat work
Click to expand...

Not rude at all, really helpful actually! What is traditional 3 coat work? Sorry if that’s a stupid question, I’ve not heard of it before.

Yes a lot of the plasterers I spoke to who said they could do lime just meant sand, cement & hydrated lime - even those who advertised themselves as specialist lime plasterers!
 
The Hobo said:
not if its ok you could end up loosening the bricks /look at re painting with a breathable paint
Click to expand...

That’s a great point about loosening the bricks, I’d not thought of that.

Do you have any recommendations for breathable paint?A lot of websites are recommending Dulux Weathershield but not sure whether they’re reliable.
 
plasterhelp said:
That’s a great point about loosening the bricks, I’d not thought of that.

Do you have any recommendations for breathable paint?A lot of websites are recommending Dulux Weathershield but not sure whether they’re reliable.
Click to expand...
not my scene /but take a look ZINSSER paints
 
I wish I'd paid more attention as a lad and missed out on a lot of info about lime work
So how about a flick with a lime mix Tyrolean , if the existing render is sound
 
A fat lime sets under air where as a NHL sets under water. You need to remove the sand and cement to allow the building to breathe if you don't have a problem now you certainly will in the future. Also check your internal exterior facing walls too. This is the same case with the paint so you will need a lime wash / mineral I always use Keim.
Would only go for someone with experience in the field as have seen some horrific things by guys just having a go it's a completely different ball game to normal stuff!
Hope this helps
 
limeplastering said:
A fat lime sets under air where as a NHL sets under water. You need to remove the sand and cement to allow the building to breathe if you don't have a problem now you certainly will in the future. Also check your internal exterior facing walls too. This is the same case with the paint so you will need a lime wash / mineral I always use Keim.
Would only go for someone with experience in the field as have seen some horrific things by guys just having a go it's a completely different ball game to normal stuff!
Hope this helps
Click to expand...
OP says sand and cement , what if it's sand cement and lime
 
plasterhelp said:
Not rude at all, really helpful actually! What is traditional 3 coat work? Sorry if that’s a stupid question, I’ve not heard of it before.

Yes a lot of the plasterers I spoke to who said they could do lime just meant sand, cement & hydrated lime - even those who advertised themselves as specialist lime plasterers!
Click to expand...
thought 3 coat was on lath
 
limeplastering said:
With out being rude i think the guy who has gave you a estimate has no idea what he is talking about tyrolean on top would make the problem worse no experienced lime plasterer would advise that!
I look at jobs weekly where plasterers claim to have lime knowledge just because they add a bucket of hydrated lime to their mix.
Also if your house is 1871 I would avoid the NHL route and get a experienced plasterer to do traditional 3 coat work
Click to expand...
thought 3 coat was scratch float and set on lath
 
3 coat work is still on brick work one haired scratch one haired/unhaired floating coat ruled compacted and devil floated and third coat top coat putty.
I believe the majority of people using sand cement and lime would just be using hydrated lime from the building merchants so not a lime render
 
plasterhelp said:
Not rude at all, really helpful actually! What is traditional 3 coat work? Sorry if that’s a stupid question, I’ve not heard of it before.

Yes a lot of the plasterers I spoke to who said they could do lime just meant sand, cement & hydrated lime - even those who advertised themselves as specialist lime plasterers!
Click to expand...
that done surprise me
 
In our opinion, we would advise to take off the paint and the sand and cement. The paint isn't the issue. The sand and cement is what is causing the problems. It is not compatible wit the substrate type you have. We would be more than happy to assist you moving forward. We have new modern technology lime systems which are tried and tested throughout europe.

Feel free to get in contact. We also have a large list of approved applicators to assist with application.
 
plasterhelp said:
Would really appreciate some help on this dilemma

My house currently has a (badly done) sand & cement flick render on it & the paint is coming off in sheets in places. It hasn’t blown anywhere we can see & there are no signs of water penetration. Every plasterer we've had round has said the render is in decent condition.

Lots of websites advised a Natural Hydraulic Lime render for a property of this age, so after speaking to lots of plasterers I found one that has worked with NHL before through the company that is doing some work on the roof.

We were all set to go, when the roofer (who’s a friend of a friend) forwarded on a private message he got from the plasterer that said while he was happy to replace the render, he thought I was ‘a bit mad’ for paying for a whole new render. He said if it was him, he would just strip the paint & put a coat of tyrolean/silicone aggregate on top for now in case there were any hairline cracks once the paint is removed and replace the render when it actually needed replacing.

So I’m a bit stuck now & not sure what the best plan of action is. One the one hand, I’ve read that sand & cement is really bad for the brickwork so I’m thinking I should get it off as soon as possible - also don’t want to duplicate work, paying for a repair now and a replacement in a few years (have no idea how old the render actually is) when I could just replace now. A new render would obviously look much nicer too.

On the other hand, a touch up is a quarter of the price so it’s definitely tempting. The current quote for work on the roof & a whole new lime render will wipe out most of my savings.

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether sand & cement is so bad it should be taken off ASAP? And whether I would be paying even more to remove the tyrolean/silicone if I needed to do it in a few years, than I would for taking the sand & cement off now?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Put it this way you won't go wrong with a lime render (no cement) hydraulic or non hydraulic.

There are many variables as to whether a sand/cement render will be suitable for this type of property but generally they are not. But there are many properties of this age rendered with sand/cement that don't have issues.

My advice would be if you don't have damp issues then to renovate the existing...e.g. remove paint, base coat then silicone finish.

If you remove then there are hydraulic and non hydraulic options as well as breathable insulated systems, but be prepared to spend big for someone who knows what they are doing.
 
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