Rendering over EML

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richardbrown

richardbrown

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Hi guys,

I am currently working for a builder who passes quite a lot of work my way and today we were talking about the next job he would like me to do for him, its a timber build that needs to be rendered.

He (Ian) wants to batten the exterior at 400mm centres using 2 x 1 , building paper, eml then 2 coats of 4-1 render.

Now when ever I have done this kind of work before the eml and building paper has always been fixed directly over ply so there is no movement and I have used a much weaker mix.

Ian is saying that there is no reason to use ply and that the only reason the building paper is used is to stop the render falling through the eml when using battens and shouldnt be used when using ply.

Please help me out and any suggestions or advice would be much appreciated.

P.s I will print this out and let him read

Thanks

Richard.
 
ian rich wants to suck you off and he will work for 50 quid a day ;)
 
you need a backing board , i just done a lime job over riblath and they had the battens at 600 centres and it was a night mare way way way too much movement, if he doesnt want to put ply up ask for at least 300 centres on the battens
 
the building paper creates an independant barrier to allow for movement and to help with suction ....strange using 4-1 for both coats ???
 
I have never rendered over just batten but would have thought that it would be prone to cracking as to much potential movement etc.

I also thought that building paper was used as a vapour barrier not just to stop the render falling through the eml.

He also said that if he uses riblath then there is no need for the building paper either !! ??.

Rich
 
Just do the job and take the money Rich hese the know it all your just working under instruction.
Lucius
 
it still breathes rich sometimes its advised to sbr slurry the background before applying the building paper
p.s sorry mate i missed thee not having ply bit ;D
 
Lucius has made a good point ,if your working under instruction any problems we not be your fault ;) timber framed contruction regs have changed well at least around my area, i was only going through this a short while ago they wanted , ply onto stud then batterns then ply again building paper /breathable membrane then rib lath to create a "air flow" cavity .... guess what .... cracked , i don't think the contruction method is the problem , its the timber i know carpenters that have been in the trade for 30 years plus and they say timber now is the worst they have ever used for being green (wet) when i first started eml work was three coat work , pricking up coat, scratch coat , top coat and each coat was left for a week before the next was applied.

Id say work under insruction on this on Rich until you have to do a timber framed job off your own back then think about it , make a point to the builder that you haven't done it this way before and your covered .
 
i was always taught 3 coat on eml or metal lathe as church pointed out..and see alot of rendering over eml/lathe and builders paper and understand the batten idea but it will still be a mare!!.if he wants you to do it "his way" fair enough, but he cant moan WHEN it cracks!! take the cash, it'll be ians fault......the thing about builders is............their not plasterers...but they always know better ;o)
 
mr church is absolutley correct.put the owness on the builder,offer your concerns.and make sure your company are not responsible for any remedial work if needed,as he has gone against your advice as the plastering contractor.
 
i can see this going one of two ways..
either ian is going to insist on his method which is fine by rich or maybe he'll turn ound and say 'ok, whats your recommendation, then if it cracks its up to you to sort it' in which case rich is gonna have to go full belt and braces to make sure theres no comebacks, in WHICH case old ians prolly gonna revert back to plan 'a' based on cost... ;)
 
Thanks guys.

I have worked for Ian for years now and he is more of a friend now then just a customer and he does listen to what I suggest.

What I am looking for is the correct way to do the job, he will listen to me.
I just didnt like the idea of the battens and building paper I prefer the idea of eml over paper then ply but if the majority think this is ok then I will go with it.

What is the correct and best way to do it ??

Thanks
 
Hi Rich the correct method for rendering over eml on a timber consruction is as follows. Ply onto timber frame of building, battens onto ply, building paper then eml, followed by three coats of render which as someone pointed out earlier must be allowed to cure between coats. Also start with a first coat of 3:1 and then the following coats progressively weaker. I have done loads of this kind of work and the NHBC use examples of my work in their "BEST PRACTICE" guide to the industry so I guess I'm doing it right.
 
i asked a fella who knows alot more than me he rekons it should be ply - paper - battens - eml - 3 coat render
 
Sorry Rich I forgot the building paper between the ply and the battens as the chippy's always fix the first paper and the battens on all the sites I work on, and I've only done a hundred or so of these type of jobs so easily forgotten.
 
napper83 said:
i asked a fella who knows alot more than me he rekons it should be ply - paper - battens - eml - 3 coat render
Click to expand...

I thought it was ply battens paper then eml, if it is as above then you'll have to push an inch of render through the eml if you know what I mean ???
 
i thought that rich an asked the same question but he sed shut up an listen will you so i shut up an put the phone down
 
ply,paper,battens,paper,eml and then your three coats of render. I just left the first layer of paper out of my original post, I know this sounds like a lot of bother but it is better in long run.
 
richardbrown said:
napper83 said:
i asked a fella who knows alot more than me he rekons it should be ply - paper - battens - eml - 3 coat render
Click to expand...

I thought it was ply battens paper then eml, if it is as above then you'll have to push an inch of render through the eml if you know what I mean ???
Click to expand...


that's why a pricking up coat is needed ,its just a quick coat but the muck has to be spot on , that's allowed to harden for a few days then you scratch it rule it off then you have a nice flat wall to top coat. I dont know why over the years poeple have stopped 3 coat work but it can ony be to cut corners and save time imo .
 
Thanks guys so we will do the following.

Ply-Paper-Batten-Paper-Eml

3-1 first coat
4-1 second coat
5-1 third coat with a few days between each coat

?????????????

Rich
 
3:1
4:1
5:1:1 for me although strength of mixes will depend on your local sands as this can make a lot of difference to the final strength. Although in my opinion the most important points to follow are to always to get progressivly weaker as in Church's example, also make sure the first two coats aren't allowed to dry out to quickly(spray with water mist if nessasary) and make sure the first two coats are cured before the next coat. Hope I'm not telling anyone how to suck egg's, I'm new to this forum game and am just trying to help, hope that,s how it comes across.
 
Thank you andy,church and everyone else I have taken on board what you have said and will pass it on.

Hope your all having a good weekend

Rich
 
essexandy said:
3:1
4:1
5:1:1 for me although strength of mixes will depend on your local sands as this can make a lot of difference to the final strength. Although in my opinion the most important points to follow are to always to get progressivly weaker as in Church's example, also make sure the first two coats aren't allowed to dry out to quickly(spray with water mist if nessasary) and make sure the first two coats are cured before the next coat. Hope I'm not telling anyone how to suck egg's, I'm new to this forum game and am just trying to help, hope that,s how it comes across.
Click to expand...


Where abouts in Essex are you from Andy ?
 
Can't be easy seeing what your troweling up through that dark visor.
On a serious note, although I've only just started using this forum I can tell that yourself and some of the other lads know what you are talking about which in my experience of nearly 30years in this game is rare.
 
Hi all,

I know this post was a long time ago but it exactly relates to my project.

We need to render a stud wall. it is an internal wall of a swimming pool building.

The stud work is not yet built so i have the option of any separation deemed necessary. However I am limited on thickness available. I cant afford stud - ply - paper - baton - paper - eml - 3 coats which it appears this post would suggest.

Can we get away with less as it is inside a dry basement and the stud wall is really just there for insulation.

my initial plan was Stud - paper - eml - 2 coat render.

what are the pitfalls with this? i might be able to afford a thin ply layer, but no extra battoning i dont think. surely the eml fixed well would do the same bracing job as a ply layer anyway.

help please

thanks

Jon
 
I always do a layer of course roofing felt (the gritty stuff like on shed roofs) then eml over that with screws and washers before two coat render. I've done loads of bay windows and dormers with this method and touch wood never had a problem/comeback/complaint. I'd put SBR in your first coat tho :RpS_wink:
 
Narcosi said:
Hi all,

I know this post was a long time ago but it exactly relates to my project.

We need to render a stud wall. it is an internal wall of a swimming pool building.

The stud work is not yet built so i have the option of any separation deemed necessary. However I am limited on thickness available. I cant afford stud - ply - paper - baton - paper - eml - 3 coats which it appears this post would suggest.

Can we get away with less as it is inside a dry basement and the stud wall is really just there for insulation.

my initial plan was Stud - paper - eml - 2 coat render.

what are the pitfalls with this? i might be able to afford a thin ply layer, but no extra battoning i dont think. surely the eml fixed well would do the same bracing job as a ply layer anyway.

help please

thanks

Jon
Click to expand...
Welcome along bud :RpS_thumbsup: @runwithscissors might have an alternative to s@c methods
 
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