Sponge float on finish??

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jeda said:
have been reading this thread and found the golden trowel sponge float method.what the guy actually says is that it is one method of balancing and blending in the first coat.but not the prefered method.if you actually watch it you will see that he is not wetting the sponge float so is not bringing fats to the surface,he is for all intense and purpose using it as he says to balance out the finish.prior to second coat.so what is the answer you are looking for as he is telling you the reason that its been done.less you have it on mute.
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seems a bloody stupid thing to be doing in a 'perfect methods' dvd.. 'not the preffered method'? are you sayin he's using a sponge float as a skimming float?
just to be a bit of a muppet...
what do you mean by 'balancing and blending'?
ive never used a skimming float or any type of float for that matter on skimming, and some of you 'do it in your sleep with one hand tied behind your back' guys are mentioning flattening off with a float.. im guessing these are some sort of 'no drag' floats? last time i used a wooden float on skimming was to give the appearance of a rough broken leather effect to match into an existing wall? my poly floats are used for rendering and screeding.. none of ems ever been near finish plaster?
 
I'm probably going to tell you what you already know Chris W (although a lot wont) so please forgive me.
In times past they often used to put three coats of setting on, the first with a normal trowel the second with a float ( used like a trowel) and then laid in with a trowel. The idea being it made the wall flatter, my old man said it made no difference at all (those that were rough with 2 coats were still rough with 3).
Also when I started plastering we were using BG Siraphite to set S & C and it was common practice to scour walls with a wooden float if they didn't have any suction and were hanging about wet for a long time before the first trowel, I can even remember seeing someone scour a wall the next mourning. Despite what the BG guide lines are and what a lot of people have said on here scouring walls even with the modern finish plasters can still have its place in achieving a good finish when conditions dictate, I know I'll get slated for that but I plaster in the real world and not a lab like the people at BG.
 
Cross grained wooden float will flatten the skimming down and highlight any slacks in the skimming but a sponge float will follow the contours of the wall. Bit like rubbing plain faced rendering up with a sponge and not the float, follows all the high and low spots but doesn't flatten them off. Think I used a cross grained float once when I was but a lad to see what it was like.
 
im gonna have to have a bash now just to see what difference it makes to my walls..
so were saying lay on first coat, let it pull right the way in, float it, knock up, lay on second coat, let it pull in again and float it... then get on the trowel immediatly afterwards, pull the marks out and continue 2nd and 3rd (final) as normal?
or do i just float the second coat?
it seems as though floating is replacing 'flattening off' but the timings gotta be spot on... wheras using a trowel allows you to flatten it a bit earlier if your walls pretty good to start with...
'cross grain' wood float? is it a wood float with something similar to saw cuts 10mm apart at 90 degrees? maybe a v groove? same thing applied to a poly float? suppose it grabs it a bit better yes? im guessing you probably find it more difficult but not impossible with a standard poly or wood float..

andy... i know in the past (way before my time) skimming was three coat work but thats the limit of my knowledge on that subject... ive heard of people laying on with wood floats before but didnt know why... so thanks for that mate, learning all the time.. ill bet it was a right pain in the arse though ;D

my technique (which is what i believed everyone did) for 'flattening' is to let it pull in, catch it just right and keeping the trowel as flat as possible with a bit more pressure just level it out..
not news i know but it made me wonder how much difference there was between flattening a wall correctly with a trowel and using a float (suppose it depends on whether its a carbon or stainless trowel)
theres always those that dont flatten, just pick up the angle and pull it all back off again? whats with that anyway? pointless if you ask me..

if you were to be prepping a wall for venitian plaster, say marble effect (marmorinho?) then floating it flat would be a damn good idea yes?
 
To be honest Chris W I very rarely flatten in between coats as I don't leave pronounced enough lines to worry if there is any sort of suction, I know a lot of lads leave deep lines after the first coat but this is only because they have never been taught or learnt to put the pressure on the trowel in the right place at the right time (putting an even pressure over the length of the trowel is bad news). I also tend to take a little longer to lay in than a lot of others making sure all is neat and tidy with no deep lines (lads that work for me often say it looks as if it's already had a first trowel), this way I usually get away with one less trowel, more often than not just two.
A cross grain float is just that a float where the grain of the wood runs across the float rather than along it's length. Don't waste your time Chris, if you really want to give a wooden float a go make one using a piece of flooring grade chipboard, but honestly don't bother.
 
fair enough... couldnt see it earning me any more by being able to charge more anyway cos no one would pay for it....

im one of the 'just get it on the wall' then 'flatten it when ive washed the bucket out and had a smoke' blokes anyway... not the cleanest plasterer i know ::) but i cant seem to 2 coat without flattening the first cos it all end up wobbly... ;D
 
essexandy said:
To be honest Chris W I very rarely flatten in between coats as I don't leave pronounced enough lines to worry if there is any sort of suction, I know a lot of lads leave deep lines after the first coat but this is only because they have never been taught or learnt to put the pressure on the trowel in the right place at the right time (putting an even pressure over the length of the trowel is bad news). I also tend to take a little longer to lay in than a lot of others making sure all is neat and tidy with no deep lines (lads that work for me often say it looks as if it's already had a first trowel), this way I usually get away with one less trowel, more often than not just two.
A cross grain float is just that a float where the grain of the wood runs across the float rather than along it's length. Don't waste your time Chris, if you really want to give a wooden float a go make one using a piece of flooring grade chipboard, but honestly don't bother.
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totally agree andy, cant beleive this topic is still going on, if you are using a sponge when skimming its because you cant lay it on nice and flat. regarding the deep lines, pressure etc you are spot on mate, i do it the same way keeping it neat, all trowel lines evenly spaced so the whole wall is in uniform. good post that mate and true :)
 
Sounds like you may be putting it on to thick Chris, multi should only be put on around 2mm thick and that's two coats so if your first coat is put on about 1.5mm thick onto a good flat background (which floating should be) it would be next to impossible to get that wobbly I should think.
I've had lads work for me in the past that use twice as much multi per house as me, but all they are doing is putting it on thick and then troweling a lot of it back of to get a decent finish (what a waste of time and energy).
They seem to get out of the habit when I suggest that they can supply the multi on the next house. :D
 
most of mine is reskims andy, i do tend to lay on a bit thick though.. specially round windows, and doubly especially when the origional beads weren't straight as i dub my beads on..
plus if theres hollows in the wall i can see without a straight edge i tend to lay it on thick to dub out a bit...
some people then run the straight edge over it but i dont go that far unless its in the corner and its for tiling or its miles out to start with..
tbh if its on board i mix up thickish one first coat, flatten it and the topping goes on real thin, barely on maybe a third of origional mix..

i just tend to find multi can be a bugger to work if it is on thick and im trying to work the full thickness.. i'll let it pull, then flatten it and the topping goes on dead easy then as though it were on board..

still catch myself out from time to time though with the suction (not enough as opposed to too much and ive pva'd the bugger) and wish i'd got board finish instead..

i always knock up new mix for topping too unless its a tiny set..

to be honest some of the jobs i get could do with a bit of bonding in places but i try and get away with a thicker coat of finish and ill manage it, but like i say, i couldnt do it without flattening the first coat then knocking up again and topping off...

then theres the worst case scenario...
tiny little set, 2 or more substrates, all over the place level wise, matt paint over silk so i pva it, use multi and then wish to god i hadnt got up that morning.. ;D
 
I put 1st coat on flat no need for flattening
then 2nd coat on flat
no need for 1st trowel
then wet trowel
dry trowel.

Bloke at work puts it on about 5 mm
then flattens all trowel marks out for a while
then second coat goes on thick with trowel marks everywhere
he flattens them out.

But he doesn't stop messing with it from 1st coat to it's last trowel
he will not leave it alone & still ends up with hollows here & there.

I tell him to leave it alone but he can't
I even went to the chippy for us after my 2nd coat went on
come back he was still f u c k i n g about with his ceiling

but everyone has there own way i suppose,
it's all down to experience.
 
I know we all have our own little ways Nisus but if you buy a product and it says put on 2mm coat why the hell would anyone put it on miles thicker over the whole wall/ceiling other than to get over a certain situation?
 
Nisus said:
I put 1st coat on flat no need for flattening
then 2nd coat on flat
no need for 1st trowel
then wet trowel
dry trowel.

Bloke at work puts it on about 5 mm
then flattens all trowel marks out for a while
then second coat goes on thick with trowel marks everywhere
he flattens them out.

But he doesn't stop messing with it from 1st coat to it's last trowel
he will not leave it alone & still ends up with hollows here & there.

I tell him to leave it alone but he can't
I even went to the chippy for us after my 2nd coat went on
come back he was still f u c k i n g about with his ceiling

but everyone has there own way i suppose,
it's all down to experience.
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He sounds like me, I can't leave it alone niether!
 
essexandy said:
I know we all have our own little ways Nisus but if you buy a product and it says put on 2mm coat why the hell would anyone put it on miles thicker over the whole wall/ceiling other than to get over a certain situation?
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Not sure mate he was putting it on board aswell!
I been plastering 17yrs he reckons he's been doing it longer,
think he's a chancer myself, he two coats hardwall
doesn't rule it off, well he doesn't own a feather edge or darby,
never devil floats hardwall up just trowels it flatish before skimming, even if he skims next day.
 
simplybesty said:
my sponge is used every now and then and i dont really care , if it makes things easyer then why not.
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well it all depends wether you are from the darkside or wether your simply the best
Paul.
 
in the days of lath and plaster the old boys used to scour or crossgrain the ceilings and walls with a crossgrain float to bring the fat in the lime to the surface, to make trowelling up easier and to acheive a nicer finish. Personally i was taught to cross grain ceiling/skirting lines and internals to make them nice and flat,it dont matter how you plaster as long as it looks neat and tidy! and if this method makes life easy for me then bring it on! we all use different ways/habits that work for us :)
 
This is a long thread, wasnt going to contribute as it has all been said but sponge floats are for one coat and as for 3 coats on SC with Syraphite which i was brought up with we dont do no more but i do still have my Syraphite float though not much left of it does come in handy sometimes.
Lucius.
 
warriorupnorth said:
My name is Paul..............and i am a computer nerd....................Round off applause .....................wow i feel so much better ::) ::) ::) ::)
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sad old skim
 
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