Taper Wants to Try Hand at Plastering

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TomBrooklyn

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Hi,

I've done some drywall taping and have become somewhat competent at it, though not great. I want to have a go at some small plastering jobs around my own property. Mostly patching imperfections in the existing plaster over wood lathe, filling in some spots where the plaster has come loose, and some skim coating. I might want to try some blue board and skim coating over some new walls I'm putting in too.

I hope I can get some help here on what kind of trowels to get, some tips on techniques and application, and some pointers on the best products to use, especially the ones that are the most forgiving/easier to work with.

Cheers.
 
sounds to me mate that the trade you were in before is a whole world away from actual plastering...
trowels... screwfix/toolfix/anyolddecenttoolshop...marshaltown/refina/ragni - plastering trowels...11"-14" anything bigger youll struggle as a novice buy the best you can afford
hawk...any old poly or ali hawk
mixer - half decent dedicated mixer drill...60-150 quid
buckets...jewsons
bucket trowel
hop-up
extension lead
3" paint brush, cleaning brush (tools)
shovel
brush
floorscraper
sponge
butty box
some old clothes
patience
practice
energy
...
 
Hi bigsegs.   Thanks for the tool list.

> trowels... screwfix/toolfix/anyolddecenttoolshop...marshaltown/refina/ragni

Only one I've ever heard of is Marshalltown, but good enough.   Only thing I have to do is figure out which trowel.   I bought a rectangular 14" Marshalltown trowel yesterday from Home Depot, but I think it's for cement.  It seems too stiff for plaster.    I'm continuing to inquire w/ supplier and Marshalltown.   Problem is plastering is a very small trade around here and few suppliers cater to them.     99% of walls and ceilings are done in plasterboard with only the seams and fasteners mudded over.  

> plastering trowels...11"-14" anything bigger youll struggle as a novice buy the best you can afford
hawk...

OK.  Good to know.

> any old poly or ali hawk

Got a couple of those.

> mixer - half decent dedicated mixer drill...60-150 quid

Got that.    

> buckets...jewsons

I got a lot of 5 gallon joint compound buckets.    
jointcompoundbucket.jpg
 They ought to be good enough for mixing small batches, eh?   I figured on mixing only small batches and doing some small spots at first.       By the way, is there any plaster that doesn't have to be applied to a whole continuous surface at once?   I see USG's Diamond Veneer Finish  
Diamond_Veneer_Finish_Bag.jpg
  product sheet  indicates "Joinability lets you halt work at any point in a room."      http://www.usg.com/navigate.do?reso...ils/DIAMOND_Brand_Interior_Finish_Plaster.htm          That could be very helpful to me as I don't know if I can do a whole wall in one shot yet, even with a helper doing the mixing and cleaning.

> bucket trowel  

What kind (shape) of trowel is that?   I have a lot of trowels.

> hop-up

It took me a while to figure out what a hop-up was.    I have one of these...  
bakerscaffold.jpg


> extension lead

Electric cord extension.  Check.

> 3" paint brush, cleaning brush (tools)

Check.   What am I going to do with it though?

> shovel

Check.   For clean up?

> brush

Is this the kind of brush?    
Thorosealbrush.jpg
 I have plenty of these.    I use them to apply Thoroseal.    I never wore a glove while putting it on though.

> floorscraper.   sponge

Check.   Check.

> butty box

You got me there.   Unless you mean a lunch box?  :)

> some old clothes  patience   practice  energy

Check, Ck, Ck, Ck.
 
sounds to me mate that the trade you were in before is a whole world away from actual plastering...
Click to expand...
Yeah. This is what taping is... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDGFs4uYNS8 just smoothing the seams and screw holes in drywall (plasterboard). At the end of this video he does a ceiling texture treatment with the same material which is joint compound. I don't know if you guys ever use that stuff, but it's used 99% of the time on walls and ceilings around here.
 
a plastering trowel is a plastering trowel whether u use it for screed, render, concrete or skimming...
your prolly just expectin it to be floppy, plaster doesnt work like that so i'd say your gonna start from scratch...
buckets youll be fine with long as theyre spotless, big flopy jewson buckets only a fiver anyway, you need 2 + a wet/cleaning bucket
(the second one is spare till you can lay on 2 bags at a go)
bucket trowel, like a guage trowel but bigger, do a search through screwfix
forget the silly products, learn to plaster with ordinary plaster first...
3" paint brush - for keeping your trowel clean on trowel up and wettin in corners etc..
add to the list a paint tray and a roller for applying pva to walls prior to overskim
sounds to me like you need to either watch someone plastering for a day or better still work with em for a week, just so you get the idea...doesnt sound like you have the foggiest at the mo (no disrespect intended) youll see what i mean when youve done your first wall..
dont panic over 'i dont think i can do a full wall yet'...if you can mix up and lay on and trowel up anyone can do a 10m2 wall...long as theyre correctly instructed
think danny might be constructing a tutorial of sorts for beginners soon...
whilst your waiting for that it goes a little like this...
mix up..
apply to wall, covering it completely..
clean bucket/tools
flatten wall off cleaning/tidying edges as you go
mix up again 1/2 as much as last time
apply to wall covering completely, bit thinner this time...
clean etc...
flatten wall, edges again
flatten it again when its gone a bit
ditto
trowel up to a smooth finish using as little water as possible, dont throw gallons of water at it, you dont need to and it'l knacker your finish...
the whole wall gets better by degrees, not in the bits your trowelling, treat the wall as a whole and dont fanny about in one place..
 
most newbuild is taped these days mate, id say the biggest market for skimmers is domestic/self builds/small builders..
therin lies the skill/experience cos overskimming old walls on a multitude of differing backgrounds is yet another world away from site skimming....
 
> a plastering trowel is a plastering trowel whether u use it for screed, render, concrete or skimming...
your prolly just expectin it to be floppy

Hi again bigsegs. Ya, I thought a plaster trowel might be a little more flexible then a concrete one because the trowels I use for joint compound taping including a big 14" rectangular one for final polishing, are a lot thinner and more flexible. Those blades are not flat. They're bowed.

> buckets youll be fine with long as theyre spotless

OK.

> bucket trowel, like a guage trowel but bigger, do a search through screwfix

Got it.
buckettrowel.jpg


> forget the silly products, learn to plaster with ordinary plaster first...

There are so many types of plaster, it's taken me a while to figure out what "ordinary" plaster is. I finally figured out USG Imperial or Diamond is the stuff. USG is the only mfg. I know of. The Imperial is harder/stronger. The Diamond is supposed to be a little easier to trowel so I'll try that. I have to pass about 20 building suppliers to get to the one that sells it. Plaster is not big selling item around here.

> add to the list a paint tray and a roller for applying pva to walls prior to overskim

It took me a while to figure out what PVA is. An email to the mfg of Plaster Weld
PlasterWeld.jpg
got this reply... "The original chemical plaster bonding agent is a patented formulation incorporating polyvinyl acetate homopolymer. (PVA)" I guess that's the stuff. USG makes a plaster bonder also. The literature says it's a vinyl acetate homopolymer. No "P" for Poly but I guess it's close enough.


> sounds to me like you need to either watch someone plastering for a day or better still work with em for a week, just so you get the idea

Good idea. Maybe I'll spend a couple of days doing some volunteer laboring.
 
im guessin here but i dont think your in the uk???
ordinary plaster to me is thistle board finish or thistle multi finish, some places deal with knauf products...never heard of usg...dunno bout any of the others...
pva is everywhere in the uk, dunno what you got there but the homopolymer bit might easily make it a similar thing to thistle bond it..doesnt really matter, just do what it says on the tin...use the roller..
 
> Im guessin here but i dont think your in the uk???

Hi bigsegs. I guess that's becoming evident. I'm in Brooklyn, NY, USA. I have a couple of uncles in the UK though. :)

> ordinary plaster to me is thistle board finish or thistle multi finish, some places deal with knauf products.

Never heard of them.

..never heard of usg...

It's a big Gypsum Building Products company with 15,000 employees. It's the only plaster mfg. that sells around here that I know of .

> pva is everywhere in the uk

Plastering seems to be much more common there.

> the homopolymer bit might easily make it a similar thing to thistle bond it..doesnt really matter, just do what it says on the tin...use the roller..

Sounds good. Thanks.
 
:)
well that would explain a few things tom...
taping is relatively new in the uk (last 10 years or so) and even more recently did it take over from skimming as the no1 newbuild wall finishing method..
i get the impression that different countries have there own different methods of plastering, different tools and products too...ive had people from eastern europe work with me a plasterers and they just couldnt do what we did, the products they were used to were vastly different, their tequniques too, it was a case of starting again for them...would be for me if i left the uk i suppose...
be interesting to find out the methods used in the u.s. though...ill look forward to reading your posts when you get to grips with it mate...good luck :cool:
 
just so you dont think im bein rude mate, what i mean is, plastering (the art of) is pretty much product dependent, as is a slight variation in product can alter the entire method of working...knauf products trowel up differently to british gypsum products, 2 different manufacturers available in the uk.
it would be unlikely we would have members that have used products from the usa, but you might get lucky :)
stick around though, i daresay the basic application tequnique is the same, its just the timing would be slightly different, and until someone can say 'o i know that stuff, its like....or it does this....' then we'll struggle to answer any questions..
 
:)
well that would explain a few things tom...
Click to expand...
LoL. Ya. Like me trying to figure out what some of your slang terms mean and not being able to find PVA right off.

taping is relatively new in the uk (last 10 years or so) and even more recently did it take over from skimming as the no1 newbuild wall finishing method..
Click to expand...
Sheetrook (which is really a brand name) or drywall (which you call plasterboard) and simply taping the seams and fastener holes has been the preferred wall and ceiling method in the States for 40 or more years. It's just so much faster and easier than the old plaster over wood lathe method that plaster jobs have become a rarity and plasterers an endangered species. Only a few remain, mostly doing historic renovation and some high end restorations. There has been a little resurgence of the craft recently, mostly in high end homes, and with some increased interest in Venetian plaster techniques.

Another new development is the "Blueboard." It's a gyp board sheet with a blue paper made to take a plaster skimcoat directly on it. This will probably increase the interest in plastering here because it just involves skimming. It will cost a bit more than regular drywall and taping but not much. I'm thinking about trying it out.
 
 plastering (the art of) is pretty much product dependent, as is a slight variation in product can alter the entire method of working...knauf products trowel up differently to british gypsum products, 2 different manufacturers available in the uk.
it would be unlikely we would have members that have used products from the usa, but you might get lucky  :)
Click to expand...
  Ahh...another complication.   Well nothing worth doing is easy.    Will see how it goes.  I'll be trying my hand at some repairs and patches soon. It's said a plaster finish is nicer than a plain plasterboard or a skim coat of joint compound, so I'm looking forward to seeing how it comes out. Another job I'd like to take a shot at soon is skimming at least part of a public hallway for the superior impact resistance that plaster provides over raw drywall. I'd like to see if that will help keep the walls from getting scratched and dinged up as much.
 
k, this 'blueboard' you mention over here is accoustic plasterboard, takes a skim same though...
we do use ordinary 'plasterboard' a lot though, ceilings get boarded + skimmed, walls get drylined (dot and dabbed) and skimmed, studwork gets boarded and skimmed, only difference is for joint work we use tapered edge board...
like i said most newbuild uses joint filling these days but a lot of the small builders board and skim for the superior finish...
as for impact resistance, youll be thinking of backing plaster followed by a skim coat...
try http://www.british-gypsum.com/
as for old lath and lime plaster...well thats just a pain in the arse for us, either a 'renovation' job or just ripped out and replaced with a more modern alternative...
as for plasterers becoming a dying breed...well theres already been some discussion over here about it, most seem to think we'll be ok for a little while, venitian polished plaster has got a few mentions but from what you say, if our trend follows yours we could be on the way out....any work over there?? highly skilled plasterers we are... :D
 
as for impact resistance, youll be thinking of backing plaster followed by a skim coat...
try http://www.british-gypsum.com/
Click to expand...
Hi bigsegs,
For impact resistance, is it not enough to just skim with one veneer coat to get a decent benefit?    I've seen it said where it's better to go with a base coat and a veneer coat for more impact resistance.     Sure, it's thicker-it's going to be stronger. But is one coat veneer still worth doing, or likely to come out good?  

I was thinking of putting some PVA on that public hallway wall I mentioned  (which is currently skimmed with joint compound (the joint taping stuff)) and trying to do a one coat veneer.   It has base and chair (horizontal about 36" off floor) moldings on it  and if I build up the walls very much the moldings are going to get buried in the wall and that won't look good.   I don't want to remove and reinstalling all the moldings.    (Too much work--and they're old and I might not be able to find an exact replacement if any break.)

PS: I'll have a look at Brit Gyp later.  Thanks for the link.
 
nothing to a stop you skimming the wall mate, youll get some impact resistance from the skim mainly because plaster is hard and a 2-mm coat will stop minor impact but dont forget the boards got give in it too, catch it where its hollow and itll cave in just like before...all depends on what you need it to do...
double boarding the wall would also increase its impact resistance, nothing to stop you removing the mouldings (provided theyre timber) and re fixing em when youve skimmed the wall..
 
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