traditional render / modern render

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zombie

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Out of curiosity chaps...

Purely domestic customers what percentage of your customers choose modern systems aposed to traditional sand and cement?

Based on your average terrace / semi detatched propery is there a big difference in price?

Ps not wanting anyone to say there prices just what sort of difference percentage wise etc?

Be interesting to know if the results differ in different areas etc?

Zombie :RpS_thumbsup:
 
And your age, us older guys would naturally gravitate to traditional sand /cement, but i'am trying new things so i might try to sell polymer modified stuff, :-)
 
I very rarely get asked for sand and cement these days ,always mono ,then again that what we do ,so could be that :RpS_confused:
 
Most customers are now asking for coloured flat render until you give them the price and then they don't bother at all.

I do give an option of traditional or polymer with bucket coat on top but the modern comes with the manufacturers warranty (Weber excluded) and traditional comes no warranty if I can help it.

It's a 1 in 6 chance of getting modern, it simply cost's to much but i prefer modern renders to S & C.
 
Rigsby said:
Most customers are now asking for coloured flat render until you give them the price and then they don't bother at all.

I do give an option of traditional or polymer with bucket coat on top but the modern comes with the manufacturers warranty (Weber excluded) and traditional comes no warranty if I can help it.

It's a 1 in 6 chance of getting modern, it simply cost's to much but i prefer modern renders to S & C.
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Why do you prefer the modern stuff Rigsby?
 
spunky said:
How would you go about a float finish over insulation
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the bucket finishes, you just rub with a plastic trowel,sometimes supplied with the material, giving you a coloured, rubbed up finish, we use dryvit, poss the largest manufactor of this kind of material.
 
Rigsby said:
Most customers are now asking for coloured flat render until you give them the price and then they don't bother at all.

I do give an option of traditional or polymer with bucket coat on top but the modern comes with the manufacturers warranty (Weber excluded) and traditional comes no warranty if I can help it.

we find that cement and sand rendering is still our biggest earner.
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The problem with traditional renders is not many very few can do it to a good standard and its feckin hard work !!new system render goes on a lot easier mono etc but it hasnt stood the test of time yet ,there,s still buildings with traditional render on 100 years old will k,rend/mono etc sand the test of time who knows .....
 
plasmaniac said:
The problem with traditional renders is not many very few can do it to a good standard and its feckin hard work !!new system render goes on a lot easier mono etc but it hasnt stood the test of time yet ,there,s still buildings with traditional render on 100 years old will k,rend/mono etc sand the test of time who knows .....
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I doubt it myself, I cannot see them out lasting good render
 
plasmaniac said:
The problem with traditional renders is not many very few can do it to a good standard and its feckin hard work !!new system render goes on a lot easier mono etc but it hasnt stood the test of time yet ,there,s still buildings with traditional render on 100 years old will k,rend/mono etc sand the test of time who knows .....
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there is a block of flats in brightlingsea, right beside the sea ,that was done in a light coloured mono, that has now gone green with algae.
 
s&c does get dirty, it's the paint that keeps it cleaner for longer. the mono manufacturers should include their clear sealer for no extra cost. Then I might be able to sell it again to customers who are concerned with it going dirty. Once it's painted it loses it's mineral look which spoils the effect. It clearly doesn't like the british climate. Cosmetic issues aside though it still outperforms knocked up s&c. Same as ocr/parmurex is better than cpi, which is better than s&c, mono's better than all of them in it's formulation/integrity imo.
 
goody said:
s&c does get dirty, it's the paint that keeps it cleaner for longer. the mono manufacturers should include their clear sealer for no extra cost. Then I might be able to sell it again to customers who are concerned with it going dirty. Once it's painted it loses it's mineral look which spoils the effect. It clearly doesn't like the british climate. Cosmetic issues aside though it still outperforms knocked up s&c. Same as ocr/parmurex is better than cpi, which is better than s&c, mono's better than all of them in it's formulation/integrity imo.
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sand and cement with lime mixed in is king ! thats why Victorian Properties still command the money they were built to last ..........
 
goody said:
s&c does get dirty, it's the paint that keeps it cleaner for longer. the mono manufacturers should include their clear sealer for no extra cost. Then I might be able to sell it again to customers who are concerned with it going dirty. Once it's painted it loses it's mineral look which spoils the effect. It clearly doesn't like the british climate. Cosmetic issues aside though it still outperforms knocked up s&c. Same as ocr/parmurex is better than cpi, which is better than s&c, mono's better than all of them in it's formulation/integrity imo.
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Sorry I just dont get it that all these new renders are better, the have problems too ,are easily damaged, easily stained ,been put on by people without the skill set. Basically the are solving nothing in my opinion that cannot be solved with good rendering mixing and application...
 
Not tried the modern stuff, all I know is S&C. Sometimes we'll tyreolene it.
Only problem we have so far is a house we did several years ago (which still looks good) which has had a smaller window put in at the back and a different door - now have the problem of matching the colour of tyreolene up as we can't find the one we used (millennium creme).

If you have a good sand like crushed stone, rendering is a joy to do.
 
sand and cement rendering went out with the ark.
we render full time, on a cross section of projects and id say 95% of projects are mono or acrylics now.
 
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plasmaniac said:
sand and cement with lime mixed in is king ! thats why Victorian Properties still command the money they were built to last ..........
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Shame some people guard their skills and keep things traditional(old fashioned) through fear of becoming obsolete more often than not.
Solid walled victorian properties and sand & cement dont go together. Victorian properties used lime to stick bricks together and a bit of rendering, which probably lasted 100 yrs being softer and able to pass moisture. It was probably hacked off in the 70's/80's and replaced with s&c which now traps moisture, is cracked to **** and is badly blown as a result of freeze thaw. But hey....there's plenty of traditional plasterers more than willing to hack it all off again and chuck the very same stuff back on
 
What I don't like about mono and acrylics is the surface although flat has a texture to trap dirt. Smooth render painted keeps cleaner in my mind.

Mono should be a long laster but at 15mm thick I can only imagine it is brittle and easy to crack. I have seen many a mono job site which has cracked in the usual places. In fact I don't think I have been on a site with mono which hasn't had cracking except a Lord & Downing job. Roughcast done in Mono.

There is an Acrylic job in my City Centre done about 20 years ago and that still looks good. High up though. Other City Centre jobs look filthy in no time. Mono or Acrylic.
 
thanks for the feed back fellas....

fascinating to see such a contrast in personal opinions and customer demand....

throwing the cat amongst the pigeon then if you was just entering the rendering trade and you was only able to be taught either traditional or modern which 1 do you think would earn you as a renderer the most money over the next 20yrs?

zombie:RpS_thumbsup:
 
If you learn to render well in a traditional manner the the modern methods seem like a piece of piss IMHO
 
22jasper said:
Thank God sand and cement never goes green!!
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the customer that purchased the mono finish expected a maintence free render, that why they paid out the extra cash.
a customer would expect to decorate a lower priced finish ,ie sand and cement.
 
Rigsby said:
What I don't like about mono and acrylics is the surface although flat has a texture to trap dirt. Smooth render painted keeps cleaner in my mind.

Mono should be a long laster but at 15mm thick I can only imagine it is brittle and easy to crack. I have seen many a mono job site which has cracked in the usual places. In fact I don't think I have been on a site with mono which hasn't had cracking except a Lord & Downing job. Roughcast done in Mono.

There is an Acrylic job in my City Centre done about 20 years ago and that still looks good. High up though. Other City Centre jobs look filthy in no time. Mono or Acrylic.
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the trouble on most sites with acrylic is the sealer is never applied as the contractor has run out of money, by that stage
 
malc said:
the customer that purchased the mono finish expected a maintence free render, that why they paid out the extra cash.
a customer would expect to decorate a lower priced finish ,ie sand and cement.
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If a customer expects mono to be maintenance free then they should be told its not. If looked after it looks fine and should never need painting. If left it looks shite. Simples
 
CurrierPlastering said:
If you learn to render well in a traditional manner the the modern methods seem like a piece of piss IMHO
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never did much of the new stuff, 20m of mono if that, we made it up as we went along,as I had no idea about it, the background was amix of brick,wood ,smooth concrete, so I used building paper and stainless for the wood and then scudded the smooth concrete, scratched it all and then added mono, it would of been nice If I knew something about it but it was at the start of the down turn and I took everything on..
 
CurrierPlastering said:
If a customer expects mono to be maintenance free then they should be told its not. If looked after it looks fine and should never need painting. If left it looks shite. Simples
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not true,
every mono manufactorer produces clear sealer now, so if applied correctly should be 'maintanence free' as it is self cleaning and would never need painting to maintain the colour in the future
 
malc said:
the customer that purchased the mono finish expected a maintence free render, that why they paid out the extra cash.
a customer would expect to decorate a lower priced finish ,ie sand and cement.
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No finish is ever 100% maintenance free.....
 
smooth finished sand and cement with a good masonry paint will last because its a flat surface - sealed - not always best after a few coats over the years and cannot breath but yes it will shed the elements much better than a scraped surface monocouche that is basically unprotected with no paint.

if you render to a smooth finish using co polymer or a lime based modified mortar and then painted with a good external paint it will easy live as long or longer than your traditional product. simples
 
Nano finish technology is shite in my opinion, and if your going to seal mono, why not use sand and cement instead and just paint
 
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