Vandex disaster

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flynnyman said:
He is on about vents pasty77 he is obsessed with them ;) he thinks it's the solution to everything. You have said you used emulsion you haven't used silk have you? Is it carpets or stone floors? Try putting the toilet seats down, empty the kitchen sink, don't dry clothes on the rads, dry the dogs, don't hang wet coats in the house, open windows, have you got curtains or blinds?
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Standard emulsion I think. Wood floors upstairs, stone downstairs. Got kids so toilet seat is all over the place :-). Doing all the rest is easier said than done to be honest, especially the amount of washing that three kids generate.
 
seanlar said:
You said it .....yes building control don't understand old building sometimes rgs SeanSean
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So if you were doing a barn today with walls about two feet thick, made of slate and old lime, how would you finish the inside, upstairs, assuming no visible damp problems? I wanted them just re-pointed but we've chopped them up a bit now for wiring etc.

plus digging off the new render will probably not leave a very nice stone finish.
 
If you want just a stone finish we would point the stone joints in course stuff stick jointed ..chopped out for wiring a bit of a problem some sort of capping .if plastering then three coat work lime putty .rgs SeanSean
 
mike wye is good source for materials near you good quality products sells couple different breathable products such as secil cork render
 
If building control insisted in this method. Can you go back to them with this. Kick up in effect. If they have told you you must use thos method. They are at fault?
 
i would think they would blame condensation not the tanking but you've got nowt to lose by standing on some toes
 
I think the problem is that they didn't specify a finish, just said it needed fully tanking. So I suppose we could have boarded it all or something. I'm sure they would have a get out. I'll have to look through the documents and see what it said if I can find it. It may have been verbal and I'm sure the lady who came out isn't there any more. Although our builder could back us up because it was a bit of an argument with them at the time so he would remember. It also cost a fortune for all that vandex.

I'm just wondering what kind of hellish job it's going to be to get the stuff off again. Especially with 3 growing kids in and us in a 2.5 bedroom house. Have to go room at a time I guess. Smallest bedroom has only one exterior wall and needs decorating so that may be a good place to experiment.

Its so frustrating as we thought it was the wrong thing to do at the time now we are left with a massive problem.

Can anyone advise as to the timesscale from bare stone wall for kids to move back in assuming we go for full lime plaster finish (3 coats as mentioned).
 
I don't think you have a chance to be honest. The condensation will always be there the tanking has probably highlighted it because its now more visible on the painted surface rather than hiding in a porous plaster. The moisture content in the air is not their fault. Nor the fact that you have a solid wall drawing the moisture to the cold surface.

Build a stud wall in front of it use foil back board leave vent gap. Put it to bed

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as above fit a piv, the sovereign one on this thread is really expensive, you want a dri master heat by nu-aire as if you put in an un heated one your place will be freezing. I fit around 10 a year and have one in my house. I get them for £305 with the vat and delivered.
 
That looks good but we've got no lofts other than a small gap at the ridge of the roofs, probably barely big enough to crawl through. Would that be any good do you think?
 
I agree with the PIV being your best way forward and then -as money becomes available - do a room at a time either with an insulated (and ventilated) stud wall, or removing the vandex and applying an insulated lime system. I've used the lime/hemp one with a product called 'silvalite' which replaces the sand and allows a decent thickness (70mm). Not cheap, and no point using it unless you can remove all of the tanking :RpS_thumbup:
 
Again piv unit keep an eye out on eBay as you can get some good deals, and make sure you have enough places for the moisture laiden air to be forced out your pad by these magic boxes )
 
There is one called the Flatmate which has a duct from outside. Am I right in thinking these units just pump dry air into the house, thereby forcing damp out through any gaps? We have open vents on all windows. The double doors are not sealed and you can feel the breeze coming in and we often leave windows on the catch so I don't think we are deprived of ventilation. Or maybe we are.
 
carlos said:
Yeah that's how they work.
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Hi Pasty77,

Don't blame the Vandex - it is a concrete waterproofing slurry for use below ground against water under hydrostatic pressure. Unless your barn is partially underground it was never needed.

It sounds like a clear case of bad advice from building control. Why on earth you'd need to hack off render and apply BB75 above ground and as a surface for decoration is beyond me - I've used Vandex for over 25 years and would never do that.

It is very unlikely to be water coming through the walls as Vandex combined with cement render is impervious. Condensation is the likely culprit. Barns have solid cold walls so usually a dry lining would be needed to provide a dry surface for decoration and also allow some insulation to be installed. That is why only the external walls are effected - they are cold.

It is a big job but I would do two things.

install a lath system over the existing vandex with insualtion including a vapour control layer. Then look at the ventilation in the building - the minimum you need is excellent extraction in the kitchen and any bathrooms, cloaks and utilities. A PIV like a Nuaire flatmaster would be great but should not be required if you already have good extraction and can lift the surface temps of the walls with the insulation.

Good luck with it.
 
DryRot said:
Hi Pasty77,

Don't blame the Vandex - it is a concrete waterproofing slurry for use below ground against water under hydrostatic pressure. Unless your barn is partially underground it was never needed.

It sounds like a clear case of bad advice from building control. Why on earth you'd need to hack off render and apply BB75 above ground and as a surface for decoration is beyond me - I've used Vandex for over 25 years and would never do that.

It is very unlikely to be water coming through the walls as Vandex combined with cement render is impervious. Condensation is the likely culprit. Barns have solid cold walls so usually a dry lining would be needed to provide a dry surface for decoration and also allow some insulation to be installed. That is why only the external walls are effected - they are cold.

It is a big job but I would do two things.

install a lath system over the existing vandex with insualtion including a vapour control layer. Then look at the ventilation in the building - the minimum you need is excellent extraction in the kitchen and any bathrooms, cloaks and utilities. A PIV like a Nuaire flatmaster would be great but should not be required if you already have good extraction and can lift the surface temps of the walls with the insulation.

Good luck with it.
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Thanks, that's the conclusion we are coming to. Problem is with putting extra stuff on the walls is that we have a lot of exposed lintels and odd returns etc. and not many straight walls but I suppose it would be possible in a lot of places. I was especially angry about having to vandex upstairs as the stone wall is stunning and we could have just pointed it I think with no issues. It would have looked amazing. I don't suppose we would ever be able to get it back to that now that it has been cement rendered do you think? Maybe in 100 years time when the cement has failed. Bah. A job for the grand kids who will curse me for applying this junk. I might just try chipping it off in the little bedroom and see what happens. I can always go over it again if it's a mess.

There is one side of the house downstairs and the top gable wall that is underground and I appreciate the need for tanking here. Even the whole downstairs I would accept. I do like the idea of the Flatmaster as we have the perfect place for it in the main stairwell at the centre of the house.

You are right though, it's a condensation issue. I just assumed that a breathable wall would allow the moisture out but I suppose if it's raining outside....
 
DryRot said:
Hi Pasty77,

Don't blame the Vandex - it is a concrete waterproofing slurry for use below ground against water under hydrostatic pressure. Unless your barn is partially underground it was never needed.

It sounds like a clear case of bad advice from building control. Why on earth you'd need to hack off render and apply BB75 above ground and as a surface for decoration is beyond me - I've used Vandex for over 25 years and would never do that.

It is very unlikely to be water coming through the walls as Vandex combined with cement render is impervious. Condensation is the likely culprit. Barns have solid cold walls so usually a dry lining would be needed to provide a dry surface for decoration and also allow some insulation to be installed. That is why only the external walls are effected - they are cold.

It is a big job but I would do two things.

install a lath system over the existing vandex with insualtion including a vapour control layer. Then look at the ventilation in the building - the minimum you need is excellent extraction in the kitchen and any bathrooms, cloaks and utilities. A PIV like a Nuaire flatmaster would be great but should not be required if you already have good extraction and can lift the surface temps of the walls with the insulation.

Good luck with it.
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welcome along Dryrot :RpS_thumbup: cracking first post :RpS_thumbsup:
 
DryRot said:
Hi Pasty77,

Don't blame the Vandex - it is a concrete waterproofing slurry for use below ground against water under hydrostatic pressure. Unless your barn is partially underground it was never needed.

It sounds like a clear case of bad advice from building control. Why on earth you'd need to hack off render and apply BB75 above ground and as a surface for decoration is beyond me - I've used Vandex for over 25 years and would never do that.

It is very unlikely to be water coming through the walls as Vandex combined with cement render is impervious. Condensation is the likely culprit. Barns have solid cold walls so usually a dry lining would be needed to provide a dry surface for decoration and also allow some insulation to be installed. That is why only the external walls are effected - they are cold.

It is a big job but I would do two things.

install a lath system over the existing vandex with insualtion including a vapour control layer. Then look at the ventilation in the building - the minimum you need is excellent extraction in the kitchen and any bathrooms, cloaks and utilities. A PIV like a Nuaire flatmaster would be great but should not be required if you already have good extraction and can lift the surface temps of the walls with the insulation.

Good luck with it.
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We have told him this throughout the thread..... He seems to be still looking for diagnosis.


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Olican said:
John o who...never heard of him! :RpS_confused:
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My full Gaelic name is seaniosaif tomais macgiollapadraig, in 1541 Henry v111 stopped us using the Gaelic and we became Fitzpatrick, this was under a scheme called surrender and regrant wher the Irish lords signed there lands over to the king and were then given it back but under the English monarchy.. Thanks for caring
 
pasty77 said:
Thanks, that's the conclusion we are coming to. Problem is with putting extra stuff on the walls is that we have a lot of exposed lintels and odd returns etc. and not many straight walls but I suppose it would be possible in a lot of places. I was especially angry about having to vandex upstairs as the stone wall is stunning and we could have just pointed it I think with no issues. It would have looked amazing. I don't suppose we would ever be able to get it back to that now that it has been cement rendered do you think? Maybe in 100 years time when the cement has failed. Bah. A job for the grand kids who will curse me for applying this junk. I might just try chipping it off in the little bedroom and see what happens. I can always go over it again if it's a mess.

There is one side of the house downstairs and the top gable wall that is underground and I appreciate the need for tanking here. Even the whole downstairs I would accept. I do like the idea of the Flatmaster as we have the perfect place for it in the main stairwell at the centre of the house.

You are right though, it's a condensation issue. I just assumed that a breathable wall would allow the moisture out but I suppose if it's raining outside....
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Its got nothing to do with rain outside. Its chemistry and you can't change it. Do a search on Google why interstitial condensation occurs.

All the answers are here

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johniosaif said:
My full Gaelic name is seaniosaif tomais macgiollapadraig, in 1541 Henry v111 stopped us using the Gaelic and we became Fitzpatrick, this was under a scheme called surrender and regrant wher the Irish lords signed there lands over to the king and were then given it back but under the English monarchy.. Thanks for caring
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Fk me you really are old ain't ya :D

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