Why does everyone loath coursers so much?

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T

Turk

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Simple question. Everyone has to start somewhere and there's not much work about for labourers/plasterers mates at the minute. With a lot of people being made redundant there's a lot of funding about for courses.

So what's the big problem?
 
the main problem i think some of the lads have is someone doing a 5 day course thinking they are a spreadand quoting up to 50% less for jobs sometimes even more then after getting the job they come on places like this an ask how to do it
 
The problem for me is mainly people who do a 3 day course then go out advertising themselves as "PLASTERERS" and potentially taking work from me, 95% of the time they leave a poor finish, it takes them longer so costs more and it generally gives us REAL plasterers a bad name.

I agree you have to start somewhere but I think the best way is to do as I did and start labouring first then slowly pick up the trade.

When I started labouring I was always asking questions and every week I bought myself a quality tool which I still have and use today.

Good luck

Rich
 
Fair enough, but like I said, everyone has to start somewhere. And besides, everyone's always telling me how they love that we go in and **** up a job and they get paid to sort it out.
 
richardbrown said:
The problem for me is mainly people who do a 3 day course then go out advertising themselves as "PLASTERERS" and potentially taking work from me, 95% of the time they leave a poor finish, it takes them longer so costs more and it generally gives us REAL plasterers a bad name.

I agree you have to start somewhere but I think the best way is to do as I did and start labouring first then slowly pick up the trade.

When I started labouring I was always asking questions and every week I bought myself a quality tool which I still have and use today.

Good luck

Rich
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That would be great, someone actually giving you that chance, but when there's no jobs, you're 29 and have no previous experience then it doesn't really leave many options does it.
 
No mate it doesnt, if you really wanna be a spread then just keep on pushing yourself and find a good spread to double up with. There are a lot of so called plasterers out there who are cowboys ... stay away from them because you will be learning the wrong way and end up a cowboy yourself. go with someone who takes pride in their work and who leaves a good tidy finish.

Rich
 
richardbrown said:
No mate it doesnt, if you really wanna be a spread then just keep on pushing yourself and find a good spread to double up with. There are a lot of so called plasterers out there who are cowboys ... stay away from them because you will be learning the wrong way and end up a cowboy yourself. go with someone who takes pride in their work and who leaves a good tidy finish.

Rich
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Nice one. hopefully work will pick up soon and someone will need and extra pair of hands!
 
I think as well its a easy job to get started in from a course , the cost of buying tools is very low compared to other trades the end product of the job will not kill someone or flood someones home if its faulty in any way like other trades, unfortunately is just one of those trades that people can have a go at . The guys that run courses in any trade are not concerned with what happens to the punters once there courses has finished its down to supply and demand and the pound note
 
Hi Turk what all that the lads have said is sound, also at 29 you will need to earn a lot more money than a 16-18 year old starting out as a labourer (which definitely the best way to start) and if you do get a labourers job you will probably be in to much of a hurry to be a spread, you just can't rush experience. When the economy was flying you could probably have earned enough to get by as a labourer but not now. Good luck but please remain realistic about what you expect.
Oh and I don't believe any plasterer will offer you a job because you've done a course so if you do one don't mention it when applying for jobs.
 
lets start a new thing where you take a trainee on and they pay you for the training do you think itll catch on im allready a big fan
 
murplastering said:
lets start a new thing where you take a trainee on and they pay you for the training do you think itll catch on im allready a big fan
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Honestly I've had several people offer to do just that over the last few years, all because they think you can be a plasterer in a matter of weeks, weird.
 
pay 700 quid to do a course in a sterile training environment.. 2 weeks intensive..
no industry recognised qualifications at the end of it..
no government regulated training school...

come and work with me for 10 days... i wont even charge you a penny... youll lean about the same as if you paid 700 quid to a training school but it'll be in a real world environment...
and because im not charging for it i dont have to fill in any paperwork, but you can have a little laminated certificate at the end of it if you like to say you call spell 'pva'
 
Chris W said:
pay 700 quid to do a course in a sterile training environment.. 2 weeks intensive..
no industry recognised qualifications at the end of it..
no government regulated training school...

come and work with me for 10 days... i wont even charge you a penny... youll lean about the same as if you paid 700 quid to a training school but it'll be in a real world environment...
and because im not charging for it i dont have to fill in any paperwork, but you can have a little laminated certificate at the end of it if you like to say you call spell 'pva'
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Or you could do 6 weeks for 1700 quid and get a city and guilds 6217-04 in plastering covering the following units:

016 Repairing a patch in a plastered wall
065 Boarding and setting a ceiling in one coat
066 Applying a floating coat to wall and attached pier
067 Applying & finishing the setting coat to a floored wall & attached pier
068 Applying a floating coat to square or rectangular column
069 Applying a floating finishing coat to a square or rectangular column
070 Scrim and skim finish with plaster
072 Replaster over textured ceiling using bonding agent
073 Applying a plain rendering and finish with a wood float
099 Basic Construction Skills Health & Safety on-line test

But to be fair, that just seemed like a waste of 1700 quid to me.
 
Turk said:
Simple question. Everyone has to start somewhere and there's not much work about for labourers/plasterers mates at the minute. With a lot of people being made redundant there's a lot of funding about for courses.

So what's the big problem?
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so what are you going to do after youve done the course that cost you how much ?
 
practice at home, work for friends/relatives and hope that word spreads. Assuming that all the 'real plasterers' won't employ anyone who's ever done a dreaded course.
 
if i had the work i would employ a lad who had been on a course but he woud have to expect to ony receive minimum wage for at least 6 months
 
Sorry worded that badly. I mean my old man never let my touch any skim only mix it for 2 years.
He used to say "Why do you need to know how to skim you can't f**k**g float yet!"
 
haha i wish id had it ike that it was only cos it was aways comercial site work we were on it was skimming day in day out very rarely got any floating an then it was only hardwall which is a piece of piss
 
I worked for free to get the experience I then went on £40 a day before tax lol I did 2 years I think with a firm but I would always spin up as quick as I could then I could slap a it on then I would then go flattening off bla bla bla.

I had to break away from them I was sticking more on than the rough spread and I was neater yet he would not pay me more money (the other spread always gave me extra cash and paid for brekky) so I did a course however I only used it to perfect my skills... and I have done pretty well out of it however I am probably one in a 1000 that have made a good business and I work with a lot of local spreads in the area and pass work about.

I remember when things started tightening up I would just give my work to the guy with the family and mortgage. you could tell that he was stressed and theres me swanning aroiund all smiles and brown from the 5 holidays or so a year I take. ...lol

The 2 guys I worked with before one was awesome one was rough the one that was rough is constantly pestering me for work...(funny hey) the one that is awesome recons we will be working together on my return however another plasterer that is working for me at present is doing a grand job and sending me regular money, and has proved his loyalty to me which I think goes without saying really


lol funny how the tables turn! I wish I did plastering when I left school but I was told I was too bright to be in construction (my dad) before I left england i was making more money in a week than he'd make in a month...lol



You gotta do what you gotta do in my opinion dont expect miracles and your are not a plasterer until you can float set render skim screed and swear a lot!! you get ut what you put in and try not to undercut local spreads price wars never last and the only loser is the person that is doing the job for peanuts.

When I get back to england if I am not getting £150 a day I shant bother I will give it to someone else and go back travelling.

Man its hot here!!

Danny

PS dont mean to offend or upset just and opinion
 
Apart from doing the course after already having some experience you got started pretty much the way most of us have recommended Danny, the one thing you did say which most of us left out and is worth mentioning again is that when you were labouring you got the muck mixed up as quick as possible to leave you time to learn to put on without it affecting the spreads you were working with, some labourers don't think they need to create the spare time to learn themselves. This why the best labourers don't stay labourers for long while some (the slow ones) never move to next level.
 
a good labourer usually becomes a good spread ....................a 2 week courser becomes a .................. ;D ;D ;D feck nows ;D ;D
 
the labourer we used, worked for a friend for nearly 5 years he was still happy getting 50 notes a day I thought in that time he could at least be flattening in I soon got rid of him...lol

Danny
 
carlos said:
Sorry worded that badly. I mean my old man never let my touch any skim only mix it for 2 years.
He used to say "Why do you need to know how to skim you can't (french word)ing float yet!"
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hate to say this but your old man was teaching you wrong plastering should always be taught backwards thats one of the reasons good allrounders find it hard.without getting to deep the first time you should be let loose on a wall with a trowel is the final trowell when skim is set ,this alows you to start to get a feel do this for a few weeks and then onto 2nd to last time untill you reach putting on .BUT you shouldnt even be allowed to put on untill you`ve stood at spot board and learnt how to get mud onto handboard cos there is a few ways and then how to get mud onto trowel etc etc.of course all of this is after you have been working with a good labourer for at least 6 months.

then you can start on roughing on and floating and ruling that takes alot longer and you should be nearing the end of your 2nd year before that happens
 
rockhardsolidplastering said:
carlos said:
Sorry worded that badly. I mean my old man never let my touch any skim only mix it for 2 years.
He used to say "Why do you need to know how to skim you can't (french word)ing float yet!"
Click to expand...

hate to say this but your old man was teaching you wrong plastering should always be taught backwards thats one of the reasons good allrounders find it hard.without getting to deep the first time you should be let loose on a wall with a trowel is the final trowell when skim is set ,this alows you to start to get a feel do this for a few weeks and then onto 2nd to last time untill you reach putting on .BUT you shouldnt even be allowed to put on untill you`ve stood at spot board and learnt how to get mud onto handboard cos there is a few ways and then how to get mud onto trowel etc etc.of course all of this is after you have been working with a good labourer for at least 6 months.

then you can start on roughing on and floating and ruling that takes alot longer and you should be nearing the end of your 2nd year before that happens
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Can I just ask, what is there to learn about putting muck on a spot board and putting muck on a hawk and getting it off again with a trowel?

Apart from not dropping it, it's hardly rocket science is it!
 
ever tried to hang a door? bet you have...
off you go merrily thinking youve cracked it, it looks sort of ok, might have taken you half a day but hey? your a beginner right?
you happily go about your business for a few years thinking you can hang doors then one day you come across a job where all the doors are being hung new and the chippies mustard....

you soon realise that what you were doing is laughable and once your actually shown how to do it properly its not only easier and quicker, the finish is bang on every time..

wish i had a quid for everyone that watched a good plasterer at work and because he IS a good plasterer he makes it look easy, and thought to themselves... 'i could do that, peice of p'ss'...
 
Chris W said:
ever tried to hang a door? bet you have...
off you go merrily thinking youve cracked it, it looks sort of ok, might have taken you half a day but hey? your a beginner right?
you happily go about your business for a few years thinking you can hang doors then one day you come across a job where all the doors are being hung new and the chippies mustard....

you soon realise that what you were doing is laughable and once your actually shown how to do it properly its not only easier and quicker, the finish is bang on every time..

wish i had a quid for everyone that watched a good plasterer at work and because he IS a good plasterer he makes it look easy, and thought to themselves... 'i could do that, peice of p'ss'...
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I don't think plastering is a piece of p*ss, i think getting muck on a hawk is a piece of p*ss
 
good for you turk, but i think theres probably a few things rockhardsolid could teach you about getting mud on a hawk that you didnt even realise... not to mention getting it off again..
not that its going to be a huge issue anyway but its the little details and tricks that set experienced plasterers off from the two week coursers who are essentially 'trainees' at that point..
the whole point of this thread was 'why do plasterers hate coursers' and the answer is evident in subsequent posts... these people (or a lot of them at least) go do a 2 week course and then call themselves plasterers, ive been doing it years and still learn something every job..
if you had an experienced plasterer in one room and a 2 week courser in the next room doing exactly the same job for the same money you'd see the difference and start to question the ethics of setting up in business as an 'experienced plasterer'...
inevitably what will happen is what happened in the double glazing game, these days every man and his dog is a window fitter, standards of work are terrible, theres no money in it and the entire industry has a bad name, and not just because of the salesmen...
 
There has been a lot of sense written here (for a change ;)) Turk, reread it and digest it, just because it isn't what you were hoping to read doesn't mean it's wrong. Good luck again.
 
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