World Skills UK

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john simpson

john simpson

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Did you ever see such a load of shite?
In case you dont know about it , they train a few kids in a trade , plastering for example.
Then for 4 years they learn the same minuscule,antiquated and bullshit part of the trade and go into some sort of Olympics complete with flag waving etc.
total fecking gravy train!
Anyways the kids , fair play to them , think its great and rightly so.
But anyone could be good at something with 1 to 1 tuition over years and years on one aspect of a trade.
In plastering its mainly fibrous based , now ive been plastering for over 20 years and fibrous only forms around 2% of what i do.
So how can someone be the world champion plasterer when they only know a small % of the trade?
total gravy train end of
 
These chaps only get a few days training over the 4 years and they work hard they are taught about tolerances when beading up and it is quite literally down to the mm...

They are taught a varied aspect of the trade but I attend a lot of these events and the world skills is one of the better ones to be honest. It is mainly drylining from what I can see and is very technical.

If it encourages accuracy and precision I feel it is a building block for them.
 
Well in my experience , the rest of the ordinary working class kids are forgot about and everyone must get the photo shoots and singular focus on the "worldskills" candidate.
Each training centre invests money so even after the main classes are candidate focused , then they get extra time on evenings etc. No questions asked about where the money comes from.
They are indeed taught a varied aspect buts its small but yes for the candidate , it is great and does give motivation.
But what about the rest of the plasterers? the ones out knocking houses out each week to make money?
Are they not skilled? just because they cant read fiddly plans and ratios etc?
Yet it could be argued that they are the really skilled ones, no time for arsing about wearing t shirts and braging how great they are , out learning the trade and earning money
Its a bit like the golden trowel fiasco
total gravy train for all involved

Not a fan of it as you can tell :)
 
What are the going to do. Take pictures of a skimmed wall. I know what u mean but it's all about something good to look at too.
 
The skills required in worldskills have to worldwide transferable skills, unfortuantely two coat plastering and skimming is not a worldwide skill pretty much we are the only country to do it, in the majority of countries across the world plasterboard is finished using taping methods with a full surface coverage, so "plastering" is added to to drylining, if you host the finals, as we did in 2012, you do get to choose the materials that are used so in that competition skimming was used, and the other competitors had to have material sent to them to practice. To take part you must sit within a certain age criteria, I believe this is no older than 21 in the year of competition, and have to be ultra dedicated. The competitors rely on sponsors to help with material etc.

No offence but i could teach my granny to skim a house, but she couldn't work to the tolerances that these kids do when they are setting out etc +/- 3mm just to score a mark to get full marks your looking at perfect measurements/dimension on all aspects of the drawings, and if you think some the blokes on here are critical when making remarks about the quality of people work on photos imagine 17 judges from different countries marking the standard of finishing from 2 foot away, picking up on any slight mark. So i'd imagine our lad could quite easily rack up and throw some skim on in a house, and as far as being fiberous dominated that makes up less than 10% of the total marks.
 
smudge505 said:
The skills required in worldskills have to worldwide transferable skills, unfortuantely two coat plastering and skimming is not a worldwide skill pretty much we are the only country to do it, in the majority of countries across the world plasterboard is finished using taping methods with a full surface coverage, so "plastering" is added to to drylining, if you host the finals, as we did in 2012, you do get to choose the materials that are used so in that competition skimming was used, and the other competitors had to have material sent to them to practice. To take part you must sit within a certain age criteria, I believe this is no older than 21 in the year of competition, and have to be ultra dedicated. The competitors rely on sponsors to help with material etc.

No offence but i could teach my granny to skim a house, but she couldn't work to the tolerances that these kids do when they are setting out etc +/- 3mm just to score a mark to get full marks your looking at perfect measurements/dimension on all aspects of the drawings, and if you think some the blokes on here are critical when making remarks about the quality of people work on photos imagine 17 judges from different countries marking the standard of finishing from 2 foot away, picking up on any slight mark. So i'd imagine our lad could quite easily rack up and throw some skim on in a house, and as far as being fiberous dominated that makes up less than 10% of the total marks.
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Totally agree

You want to see some of the tosh at other events
 
smudge505 said:
The skills required in worldskills have to worldwide transferable skills, unfortuantely two coat plastering and skimming is not a worldwide skill pretty much we are the only country to do it, in the majority of countries across the world plasterboard is finished using taping methods with a full surface coverage, so "plastering" is added to to drylining, if you host the finals, as we did in 2012, you do get to choose the materials that are used so in that competition skimming was used, and the other competitors had to have material sent to them to practice. To take part you must sit within a certain age criteria, I believe this is no older than 21 in the year of competition, and have to be ultra dedicated. The competitors rely on sponsors to help with material etc.

No offence but i could teach my granny to skim a house, but she couldn't work to the tolerances that these kids do when they are setting out etc +/- 3mm just to score a mark to get full marks your looking at perfect measurements/dimension on all aspects of the drawings, and if you think some the blokes on here are critical when making remarks about the quality of people work on photos imagine 17 judges from different countries marking the standard of finishing from 2 foot away, picking up on any slight mark. So i'd imagine our lad could quite easily rack up and throw some skim on in a house, and as far as being fiberous dominated that makes up less than 10% of the total marks.
Click to expand...

Totally agree

You want to see some of the tosh at other events
 
john simpson said:
Did you ever see such a load of shite?
In case you dont know about it , they train a few kids in a trade , plastering for example.
Then for 4 years they learn the same minuscule,antiquated and bullshit part of the trade and go into some sort of Olympics complete with flag waving etc.
total fecking gravy train!
Anyways the kids , fair play to them , think its great and rightly so.
But anyone could be good at something with 1 to 1 tuition over years and years on one aspect of a trade.
In plastering its mainly fibrous based , now ive been plastering for over 20 years and fibrous only forms around 2% of what i do.
So how can someone be the world champion plasterer when they only know a small % of the trade?
total gravy train end of
Click to expand...
I know some young lads in the area just left college they think ther the best around in this game.Ther vans are like hot dogs van covered in sign writing trophies on ther vans like they have won the World Cup .It makes them think ther the best and they get more come backs that iv ever c .At the end of the day they should respect the lads that have grafted for years whith the experience behinde them
 
smudge505 said:
The skills required in worldskills have to worldwide transferable skills, unfortuantely two coat plastering and skimming is not a worldwide skill pretty much we are the only country to do it, in the majority of countries across the world plasterboard is finished using taping methods with a full surface coverage, so "plastering" is added to to drylining, if you host the finals, as we did in 2012, you do get to choose the materials that are used so in that competition skimming was used, and the other competitors had to have material sent to them to practice. To take part you must sit within a certain age criteria, I believe this is no older than 21 in the year of competition, and have to be ultra dedicated. The competitors rely on sponsors to help with material etc.

No offence but i could teach my granny to skim a house, but she couldn't work to the tolerances that these kids do when they are setting out etc +/- 3mm just to score a mark to get full marks your looking at perfect measurements/dimension on all aspects of the drawings, and if you think some the blokes on here are critical when making remarks about the quality of people work on photos imagine 17 judges from different countries marking the standard of finishing from 2 foot away, picking up on any slight mark. So i'd imagine our lad could quite easily rack up and throw some skim on in a house, and as far as being fiberous dominated that makes up less than 10% of the total marks.
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That's all good, but what areas do they have to cover to that spec in how much time???
Anyone worth their salt would be able to do A wall like that if their wasn't too much meterage!
 
Just a little r example of the technical side of things
 

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smudge505 said:
The skills required in worldskills have to worldwide transferable skills, unfortuantely two coat plastering and skimming is not a worldwide skill pretty much we are the only country to do it, in the majority of countries across the world plasterboard is finished using taping methods with a full surface coverage, so "plastering" is added to to drylining, if you host the finals, as we did in 2012, you do get to choose the materials that are used so in that competition skimming was used, and the other competitors had to have material sent to them to practice. To take part you must sit within a certain age criteria, I believe this is no older than 21 in the year of competition, and have to be ultra dedicated. The competitors rely on sponsors to help with material etc.

No offence but i could teach my granny to skim a house, but she couldn't work to the tolerances that these kids do when they are setting out etc +/- 3mm just to score a mark to get full marks your looking at perfect measurements/dimension on all aspects of the drawings, and if you think some the blokes on here are critical when making remarks about the quality of people work on photos imagine 17 judges from different countries marking the standard of finishing from 2 foot away, picking up on any slight mark. So i'd imagine our lad could quite easily rack up and throw some skim on in a house, and as far as being fiberous dominated that makes up less than 10% of the total marks.
Click to expand...


Ive worked in a lot of Europe and in the USA
Taping and jointing is a trade in itself and everywhere i worked it was 2 coat work?
So to the best of my knowledge we are the same as any other country doing 2 coat work.
Dunno how much skimming was involved but anytime ive seen it , skimming was an afterthought , a small wall to stick the mouldings onto.

You may teach your granny to skim a house? but would she get paid at the end of it? would the clerk of works or client be happy enough to pay and then would the recommend the workmanship? Would the joiner be bad-mouthing you as the skirting isn't flush , the walls aren't plumb and units and fixtures aren't sitting square.
Load of bullshit , good plasterer works to fine specs without standing fannying around looking at drawings and mumping about over a wee m2 wall!
And i can assure you that every job i do , the client and every trade after judges my work. If its crap you wouldnt be long hearing about it or getting called back.
Now i learnt my trade proper and as much as i applaud the kids for dedicating themselves to the "competition" i personally feel that the competition is a back slapping exercise for those on the gravy train.
I can read drawings and run moulds and work to mm tolerances with it but i wouldnt be raising a family doing so.
Your filling these young lads head full of shite and promoting yourselves and lining the pockets.
Ill wager most of the lads are doing 2 coat work within weeks of returning from the jolly in Brazil.
And better than that , they have wasted so much time on this shite that they wont be able to skim a house to the fine specs required by most modern builders and clients.
 
The Apprentice said:
Just a little r example of the technical side of things
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Fair play to you if your taking part and it is a great experience for you.
But you see that transformer looking thing your plastering , ive been in the game 20 years and never had to do anything like that, sort of thing you come across now and then.
 
BigK said:
Couldn't have said it better myself John!
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Thank you BigK , got to keep it real , seen this on the news this morning and it annoyed me.

Also when the lads are knocking houses out they only have a set amount of time , no time to stand around discussing what to do , imagine a pimply 21 year old going to the site office and spending half the day mulling over site plans and doing wee scale drawings and standing around blowing their trumpet , be off site by lunchtime or until the humour went off you
 
I don't think it's any different to any other competition or sport. Ultimately they're all pointless, but enjoyable for the people taking part or those watching who have an interest. They aren't supposed to be related in anyway to real world situations, and I doubt anyone can seriously think they are. None of which is a reason to stop doing them of course. :)
 
Danny said:
I actually like bringing engineering into plastering bringing tolerances down and getting things perfect... it trains the eyes for attention to detail...
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Absolutely Danny but it doesn't make you "World Champion" plasterer!
But this is what we are telling these kids and they are going off with their level 2 NVQ to learn that it was all completely irrelevant to plastering to make money and therefore a big waste of time bar for the people making "their" living from it :)
 
imago said:
I don't think it's any different to any other competition or sport. Ultimately they're all pointless, but enjoyable for the people taking part or those watching who have an interest. They aren't supposed to be related in anyway to real world situations, and I doubt anyone can seriously think they are. None of which is a reason to stop doing them of course. :)
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Not really , all "world champion" sportspeople dedicate themselves and have done so since early childhood , not turned up on a tuesday afternoon once or twice a month for a year.
Plus when they become world champion then they tend to use the skills to make money and have a career
 
john simpson said:
Not really , all "world champion" sportspeople dedicate themselves and have done so since early childhood , not turned up on a tuesday afternoon once or twice a month for a year.
Plus when they become world champion then they tend to use the skills to make money and have a career
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No they don't. The tiny minority get money from endorsements and sponsorships, they don't use the skill from any sport or competition to earn a living. As for dedication since childhood, so? They have a hobby or interest that they devote their time to. Good for them, I'm glad they enjoy their hobbies. No harm in doing so, and no benefit either.

Darts, boxing, football, motor racing, golf, 100 metre sprint, shot putt, kayaking, d*m**o toppling, caber tossing ...... whatever. Companies will sponsor them or pay them to endorse things if they're famous or world champion etc. they will earn fcuk all actually doing the activity.

If the activity is popular enough they'll get paid to do it, but pay is according to popularity not skill or dedication. World heavyweight champion in boxing, millionaire. World heavyweight champion in kick boxing, MMA, or full contact Karate, makes a living. Nothing to do with dedication, ability or fitness. None of them can earn money using their skills. Possibly they'd get work as a bouncer, but even then it's an allied trade with a different skill set.

So youngsters competing in trade competitions won't come out of them instantly able to work as super stars, but they'll have entered a competition and enjoyed themselves. Maybe even get a few bits from the sponsors because they'll use it as advertising. No harm in that.
 
When I was an apprentice the college picked me or to do a skills test against other boys ( new thing 30 years ago) , from other colleges,I was told no one will pass it cos its impossible to do in the two days cos of the tolerances we had to work too ,theplastering lectures even said you won't even finish it let alone pass it, I did complete it but the list of stuff they failed me on you could of wrote on a full toilet roll:nocausagracia:
 
superspread said:
When I was an apprentice the college picked me or to do a skills test against other boys ( new thing 30 years ago) , from other colleges,I was told no one will pass it cos its impossible to do in the two days cos of the tolerances we had to work too ,theplastering lectures even said you won't even finish it let alone pass it, I did complete it but the list of stuff they failed me on you could of wrote on a full toilet roll:nocausagracia:
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pack or single (toilet roll):inocente::lol:
 
all construction competitions are carried out in a false environment, usually pitting one college against another for local bragging rights, however, if the competitions were held on building sites or commercial buildings it would more creditable -- for trainees and companies - and i sure some of you guys would like to pit yours skills against fellow forum members for bragging rights........ north v south im sure they would be a few up for it :inocente::inocente:

Danny could this be possible -------prizes ----holidays---- rather than cups and stickers:rock:
 
john simpson said:
Absolutely Danny but it doesn't make you "World Champion" plasterer!
But this is what we are telling these kids and they are going off with their level 2 NVQ to learn that it was all completely irrelevant to plastering to make money and therefore a big waste of time bar for the people making "their" living from it :)
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lot of people are probably a lot better boxers than the current champ but they choose to compete...

I would out fish those competing on match days... would not want to enter though...

playing devils advocate...
 
puddove said:
all construction competitions are carried out in a false environment, usually pitting one college against another for local bragging rights, however, if the competitions were held on building sites or commercial buildings it would more creditable -- for trainees and companies - and i sure some of you guys would like to pit yours skills against fellow forum members for bragging rights........ north v south im sure they would be a few up for it :inocente::inocente:

Danny could this be possible -------prizes ----holidays---- rather than cups and stickers:rock:
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;)
 
A couple more pictures, not done anything like it myself either but but it must be good on BBC news as I type this
 

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One of the journeyman plasterers (Larry Everett) that worked for my Dad for many years was a Winner in the Plasterers' & Cement Masons Statewide Apprenticeship Competition in California back in the early 1960's. He passed away a few years ago now. My brother and I both were lucky to have spent a lot of time working with him on a lot of different jobs when we were apprentices and afterwards. He always left really impeccable straight beautiful work, and took a lot of pride in doing so. His tools were so clean they would look new except for the wear. He wasn't always the nicest person but a great teacher to study under. I think he was a bit harder on my younger brother probably because he didn't start working for my Dad until he was 17 or 18. I started real early when I was barely a teenager. My Brother didn't like the guy because he was so hard on him, but ever since my brother leaves his work as nice as Larry ever did.
 
W
The Apprentice said:
A couple more pictures, not done anything like it myself either but but it must be good on BBC news as I type this
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Yeah was on yesterday too , thats where i got started on about it :)
Its great for the kids taking part and great experience for them.
Pity it wasnt more inclusive for the majority of apprentices doing work they would be doing everyday and not over complicating it.
Its a jolly for the people involved in the running of it and would be a bit farcical if the UK win , that would suggest that the UK has the best training program through colleges etc for the working class youth :)
I think we can all agree you learn f all in the colleges
On BBC now and a young lad from UK being interviewed, Robert Spencer , came 5th i think.
 
john simpson said:
W


Yeah was on yesterday too , thats where i got started on about it :)
Its great for the kids taking part and great experience for them.
Pity it wasnt more inclusive for the majority of apprentices doing work they would be doing everyday and not over complicating it.
Its a jolly for the people involved in the running of it and would be a bit farcical if the UK win , that would suggest that the UK has the best training program through colleges etc for the working class youth :)
I think we can all agree you learn f all in the colleges
On BBC now and a young lad from UK being interviewed, Robert Spencer , came 5th i think.
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I am sure it's available for colleges.. as you go through qualifying rounds and what not....

I know skill build is for all colleges... then the best get taken from that or something
 
That's right Danny, they have regional comps and then the winners progress to the national finals. A group is then given additional training and they are then short listed to a group of 3 I believe, and 1 is chosen to represent their country.
 
Loren said:
One of the journeyman plasterers (Larry Everett) that worked for my Dad for many years was a Winner in the Plasterers' & Cement Masons Statewide Apprenticeship Competition in California back in the early 1960's. He passed away a few years ago now. My brother and I both were lucky to have spent a lot of time working with him on a lot of different jobs when we were apprentices and afterwards. He always left really impeccable straight beautiful work, and took a lot of pride in doing so. His tools were so clean they would look new except for the wear. He wasn't always the nicest person but a great teacher to study under. I think he was a bit harder on my younger brother probably because he didn't start working for my Dad until he was 17 or 18. I started real early when I was barely a teenager. My Brother didn't like the guy because he was so hard on him, but ever since my brother leaves his work as nice as Larry ever did.
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The best teachers are the ones that are hard on you,but fair.
 
john simpson said:
Fair play to you if your taking part and it is a great experience for you.
But you see that transformer looking thing your plastering , ive been in the game 20 years and never had to do anything like that, sort of thing you come across now and then.
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John. Could give us a we idea what you think should be on competition. Something you could be happy with.
 
Yeah sure no problem.
What about something not so up someones arse and relevant to everyday plastering.
Window reveals , arches , quoins and the like
 
Well since you dont believe in teaching apprentices to labour , they wouldnt be able to mix sand and cement for a start.
You are a fan of it, im not, its good that people disagree :)
I am pleased for the kids that do get to take part and it is useful for them.
However i dont feel it represents the majority of young plasterers in the UK
Not much more to say on it without going back and forth
gl
 
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