essexandy
The Lake Governor
How old were you when you retired mate?
How to calculate your sq/m price?
- Thread starter Woods
- Start date
Spitandpolish
Well-Known Member
Their 15 minutes of fame mate !
Woods
Active Member
you assume I do old masonry in one coat? I doesn't work mate. Unless you're doing the facing side of a feature wall that was built well. With old brick there's only ever one side that can look clean. The back will always be s**t. When you try and plaster the back, or just dodgy brickwork in general, some areas will end up too thick and will drop out and if it doesn't, it will shrink excessively, likely delaminate and crack. It only takes one wall in a plasterer's career to know this. Thing is, I know this by experience, not because someone said so.
if you have a good hod carrier
>Why would anyone want to film plastering, it's throwing a bit of s**t up the wall ffs.
scared mate? Or you just thàt ugly? I'm sure it's not that bad
essexandy
The Lake Governor
No you don't need a good hod carrier or any labourer to achieve the meterage I've mentioned if you know what you're doing and have a good work ethic.
Anyway I've wasted enough words on you now seeing as you don't listen and constantly disbelief that others are capable of that which you are not.
Woods
Active Member
pretty much every resource disagrees with you mate. Try and look for it online yourself. No one claims they can do 70sqm daily by themselves. Most resources state a good plasterer should be able to average 20 - 30 sqm/day. I asked around with some other plasterers and none have told me it's realistic or wise.
Until you send me a video of someone doing it, I'm just not gonna put my confidence in your word. Maybe one day I'll come to the UK and some of you can show me then. But I'm not going to believe anything based on the drivel of some random boomers on a mediocre (at best) internet forum. Maybe I'm wrong though; in which case, if you can empirically prove you're right, I'll be ready to apologise. Cheers and all the best
Monkey Boy
Well-Known Member
Going for 72 today
Stewie03
Well-Known Member
Will you just shut the f**k up
Woods
Active Member
only if you send me a video of you doing 70sqm in a day and float it within 3mm tolerance. Until that time, I'm afraid you're stuck with me. You always have the option to leave or better yet, turn off your computer and go outside. Too much computer time will make you miserable. Good luck!
edit: I heard Andy has a lake. Maybe you should visit him and release some stress. I'm sure it'll be very therapeutic
paulf
Well-Known Member
Don't, you'll regret it, you'll be the talk of the town at your local A&E.
Woods
Active Member
actually, a lot of people seem to agree. I posted some screencaps earlier in this thread, go have a look
actually, a lot of people seem to agree. I posted some screencaps earlier in this thread, go have a look
A lot ?
Or 3 bitchy r e t a r d s?
Woods
Active Member
nice cope mate; it's like that bloke said: this used to be a nice community years ago and now it's just a couple of mental retired boomers sucking each other's dicks pretending they still matter.
Every time I've come here for help and guidance, what I got was abuse, trolling, navel gazing and general r3tardation and I'm all for it, but again, Reddit would be more appropriate for that. This is a plastering forum and even though you have a lot of experience, the trades are always evolving. But it seems that some people prefer to remain stuck in the past. The whole point of being old is to offer guidance to the newer genertion. But that doesn't mean your way or the highway. It means that you put yourself in the position of the youngsters and help them achieve what they would like to achieve. Not what you want them to achieve. A lot of old people get this wrong and that's why no one likes you. A little empathy would go a long way. But I'm preaching to the walls I know.
Planned to stop site work at 50 but carried on as money was good, then was given a project with guaranteed wage for a couple of years that I couldn't refuse.
Helped out a mate for a couple of years, hardly did anything from 56 to 58.
Then had the opportunity to buy a second house to renovate and rent out.
So fully retired at 60.
What do you want, you live in a different country using different products with a different work ethic.
My suggestion of staying on day work until you gain experience to price your own systems didn't help.
Then you insinuate I'm a liar because your system/product/experience doesn't allow you to do the metreage I could.
I have taught 3 young plasterers and all can do good metreage and earn good money
Using hardwall and skimming also rendering and floor screeds (sand and cement internal is rarely used now)
You seem to be a useless snivelling s**t that deserves no help so I wish you luck and goodbye.
Woods
Active Member
How? No one else uses my system. I have no choice other than getting my own jobs. Which is why I was here. I already told you that at the meterage I know I can maintain, which is a conservative, realistic estimate, I have a good wage I'm happy with. But every time I say that, you just roll your eyes. How about you just show some encouragement and give me tips and tricks to help me make it work.
Even if I lose money on my first 3 jobs, who cares? I have no big financial obligations currently, so I can afford to take the risk and just jump. Who cares I'm not yet at my best? I'm literally pioneering a system I believe in, which is in line with the contemporary international sustainability zeitgeist. But it's not greenwashing like so many other knobheads do these days. It's ACTUALLY sustainable. And due to the extreme low material costs, it's also beneficial to the customer, regular joe. Quite possibly, it's the future of plastering. Logically it has to be.
So in stead of pulling me down, perhaps try and lift me up. Accept the fact that I'm gonna do it and throw your best ideas, tips and tricks at me and who knows, maybe in a few years you can all tell yourselves: "we helped that guy reach his goal. He was a bit unrealistic in the beginning, but with our guidance he made his dream come true."
So far, I've responded positively to every bit of actual useful advice you've thrown at me. But we haven't really been talking a lot about actual plastering right?
I literally have a million more questions and problems related to plastering and my system but I just can't be bothered to ask because I know you'll just shoot it down.
So yeah, some of you seem to be here just to shitpost and that's fine with me. I've been shitposting since I was 6 years old. I'll keep going until I get bored.
Or we can actually start talking about plastering... because thanks to other researchers like Nigel Copsey (who is your age currently) we know the systems they used in the past. The only trouble now is figuring out how they did it technically and efficiently.
For example: in the past there was no SBR and crap like that. The reason I can't use it, is because it diminishes the wall's convective drying performance. But this also presents us with the problem that if you want to plaster a brick wall, you have to deal with the suction in different ways.
For example; imagine we have a wall 2.5m high and 5m wide. Within half an hour the plaster is starting to dry, to the point where it's difficult to rule and nearly impossible to float. So currently, I'm forced to put on band of say 2m wide, top to bottom and then have to rule it and float it. Then carry on with the next band.
The problem with this is that it's very difficult to get the wall straight in the horizontal axis. Do you know what I mean? Getting it straight in the vertical axis is fine though.
So I was thinking, maybe I should first put in screeds with plaster and use them as guides for the whole wall.
It's stuff like that you know? I'm sure your experience could prove extremely useful. But I'm not sure you're actually interested in talking about plastering anymore.. it seems like you've given up and here just to shitpost all day because retirement is a f**k**g drag. And that's fine if you want to do that. But then maybe change the name of this website, yk? The Cranky Old Person's Forum has a good ring to it.
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Woods
Active Member
never done that, so that will be something new to learn. But thanks for the feedback; much appreciated!
Is there a method to placing the screeds? My guess is that you have to make sure your rule can bridge the distance. Anything else to be mindful of? for example, in case you're working on a MASSIVE wall?
Smudger1
Well-Known Member
Pick out high point along wall string line helps on long runs start there with thin screed. Distance next screed to longest straight edge you use. You can get long rigid aluminium box sections from steel merchants. That what I use on large floor screeds too. Fill in and rule up wall will be BANG on.
You're going to need 3 screeds BANG on to cary along wall touching 2 screeds with straight edge reaching the next one to keep it true to the ends.
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Don't tell him how many metres you can do smudge, it'll end in tears
just say 14
Smudger1
Well-Known Member
Early finish today my arm was hurting after 50m2Don't tell him how many metres you can do smudge, it'll end in tears
Woods
Active Member
I have a floor screed rule, but why do you use it here? You're not scraping the wall but rather "floating" it with the rule?
only 50? I know guys that can do 70 without even tryingEarly finish today my arm was hurting after 50m2
It's Friday, everyone deserves an easy day now and againEarly finish today my arm was hurting after 50m2
Smudger1
Well-Known Member
Once you've got a few screeds on its easier to use them as a guide to take excess off further screeds bottom to top before floating them in then check for straight with the rule. I've got a couple of aluminium box section screeders ones 3m long I lay across screeds to check they slide up the plumbed screeds to make sure they're all laying true. Then fill in the gaps using the screeds on wall and screeder to take excess out and float up.
Clearer ?
Woods
Active Member
ah yeah I think I can picture it. You're right, a floor screed rule slides much easier over the plumbed screeds. A regular straight edge would dig into them, likely destroying them. Since floor rules work on floor screeds, it seems logical that they would work well on a big, high suction wall as well.
Jesus, this method makes so much sense. I've only seen indians using that technique. Everyone else these days just seem to kill the suction with chemicals.
is this what you mean?
Monkey Boy
Well-Known Member
jes
Woods
Active Member
is it possible to floor screed 30m2 in a day by yourself? 30mm thickness
I did 50mm, 30m2 in 3 short days. So maybe 30mm should be manageable in one long day and with good prep? In case I need two days, is it possible to make an overlap if you add cement? I've only done earth screeds and they take a long time to dry, so you can always continue the next day where you left off. But I don't think that works when you add a hydraulic binder right? Or is there way to patch sections together? Maybe insert a mesh at the border at the end of the first day?
I did 50mm, 30m2 in 3 short days. So maybe 30mm should be manageable in one long day and with good prep? In case I need two days, is it possible to make an overlap if you add cement? I've only done earth screeds and they take a long time to dry, so you can always continue the next day where you left off. But I don't think that works when you add a hydraulic binder right? Or is there way to patch sections together? Maybe insert a mesh at the border at the end of the first day?
Woods
Active Member
video proof is obligatory yes, always
jokes aside, I can screed, I won't say I'm good but I know how to get it level. Speed is something to be worked on for sure. But I think I can do it if I prepare really well and start early.
sorry I know I said goodbye but on this occasion, yes I know plenty that can.I won't give you any figures you won't believe me!!
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Mouldyoldspudgun
Well-Known Member
He's not retired neither am I . I'm sixty six. You asked about sand and cement, not lime.
Houses here aren't made to breath it's all about money , that's why cement took over from lime.
Woods
Active Member
Doesn't make sense to me though. Bag of cement costs 10€, bag of quicklime costs 18€ (but has almost twice the density of cement)
to make an earth/lime mortar you need, generally:
5% quicklime
35% clean sharp sand
60% "dirty" sand (loam) which is unwashed sand with clay/silt particles.
For sand/cement plaster you need:
20% cement
80% clean sharp sand
1 ton of "dirty" sand costs 9€ !!!
1 ton of clean sharp sand costs 60€
So if we do the math:
cement: 0.22€/L
quicklime: 0.26€/L
clean sharp sand: 0.04€/L
dirty sand (loam): 0.006€/L !!!
earth/lime mortar costs 0.46€ for 1m2 plaster at 15mm thickness
sand/cement mortar costs 1.14€ for 1m2 plaster at 15mm thickness
So when you're plastering a house with earth/lime mortar, you roughly save 55% on material costs.
In terms of plastering, there is little difference between earth/lime and sand/cement with added plasticizer. It has the same weight. The only real difference is the set time. Sand/cement will harden within 24 hours and be fully cured after a month or so. Earth/lime initially dries out and then takes up to 3 months to fully cure and reach its full strength. In practise, after about 1 week it is usually sufficiently hard for finishing, probably even earlier. Also, on high suction masonry backgrounds, it will harden within half an hour because the masonry sucks out the moisture. So in terms of organisation and also the method of spreading/ruling/floating is different from the sand/cement method where you would usually kill the suction to give you enough time to spread a wall in one go and then rule it off. With earth/lime you can't kill the suction because that would defeat the main purpose of using this plaster (stimulation the convective drying capacity of the wall system). So earth/lime is applied in the traditional method before suction killing chemicals were invented. This is the method @Smudger1 was talking about.
But since you're not applying pva/sbr to the walls, you save time and money. But you do add a little bit of time because you have to form screeds on the masonry and then fill them in. Although I think in practice, this added time is negligible.
So really, in terms of cost/efficiency as well sustainability (stimulating convective drying and thus largely eliminating damp problems), earth/lime mortar makes sense from an initial standpoint (cheaper initial cost) but also in the long term, because costs related to (future) damp issues will be decreased dramatically.
Earth/lime is the future. It's much more fun to work with (imo). It has a much nicer colour (earth toned) and it spreads like butter without having to add plasticiser. It also smells lovely... it's hard to explain the smell, but adding the quicklime to it, it give it a sort of earthy and sweet smell. It's very enjoyable to work with.
Also; there is ZERO WASTE with earth lime. At the end of the day, if you have gear left, just put it in plastic bag or leave it in a tub or bucket and just cover it. The mortar will be perfectly fine as long as the moisture stays in it. I've kept earth/lime mortar in plastic bags for months.
I haven't done much cement work so I don't know how cement affects your skin. The earth/lime can burn your hands but I've never worn gloves. In fact, working with lime taught me to be more neat. If you work neat, your hands will be fine.
edit:
I forgot to add: earth/lime is more flexible than sand/cement. So slight movements in the house won't affect it as much as it would sand/cement. Lime also has self-healing properties, it can deal with microcracks.
Even tho earth/lime is more flexible, it is still strong. If you punch the wall, the skin on your fist will split before the wall does. And yes, I've tested this.
Online, you also read a lot about home owners complaining they can't find any plasterers that want to do lime plastering. I'm pretty sure that if you get into this game, you can charge a little more because lime plasterers are hard to find. So yeah... material costs are lower, you're giving your customers a better product and you'll make more money.
There is absolutely no reason why you guys shouldn't be doing this. Imagine the best plasterers took matters into their own hands and start changing the industry from the bottom up...
Before the technological revolution, the mortar design was decided by the craftsmen. Traditionally, this has always been so. But then some idiots who sit in an office all day decided they knew better... and the irony? These same people are now slowly starting to realise that we have to reduce our reliance on cement... And the solution is literally hidden within the listed properties from the past, built by our great ancestors.
Thousands of years of tradition has a lot of common sense and wisdom in it. Until "scientists" and "industrial lobby" and "corrupt governments" ruined it.
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Woods
Active Member
To finish the earth/lime base coat, you can also design your own plaster. You can add loam (finely screened) to give it colour and texture. You could use very fine sharp sand. You can also do marmer dust or chaulk like the venetians tended to do. There are a lot of different earth pigments you can add as well. Because here comes the fun: Your skim coat you work so hard on, now becomes the final look. It does not need painting! You can still paint it if you want, with lime or clay based paints or other vapour open paints. But honestly, the look and feel of a well skimmed lime plaster wall is second to none. You can polish it into a mirror or you can sponge float it to give it a sleek, soft textured feel. It really brings back the craftsmenship and every plasterer will develop their own styles and give their walls a unique character.
Not only will walls be so much more beautiful to look at, they'll also be healthier and since it doesn't require paint, it also saves the customer even more $$. And this would perfectly justify you charging a bit more for your services.
Also, for customers that want to save as much as they can, you can also offer to just give them the earth/lime base coat without skim. If you sponge float finish them or even burnish them with the trowel, you can get extremely attractive finishes as well. Because this plaster is not dull, dark grey like concrete. It's usually a light, earthy, brown and if you sponge float it, the various coloured sand particles also show through so you get a very beautiful, elegant look. Picture is one possible example. Final colour will depend on the loam and sand you use. You can also add pigment to alter the colour.
Basically, the possibilities are endless
Not only will walls be so much more beautiful to look at, they'll also be healthier and since it doesn't require paint, it also saves the customer even more $$. And this would perfectly justify you charging a bit more for your services.
Also, for customers that want to save as much as they can, you can also offer to just give them the earth/lime base coat without skim. If you sponge float finish them or even burnish them with the trowel, you can get extremely attractive finishes as well. Because this plaster is not dull, dark grey like concrete. It's usually a light, earthy, brown and if you sponge float it, the various coloured sand particles also show through so you get a very beautiful, elegant look. Picture is one possible example. Final colour will depend on the loam and sand you use. You can also add pigment to alter the colour.
Basically, the possibilities are endless