How to calculate your sq/m price?

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Woods said:
Doesn't make sense to me though. Bag of cement costs 10€, bag of quicklime costs 18€ (but has almost twice the density of cement)
to make an earth/lime mortar you need, generally:
5% quicklime
35% clean sharp sand
60% "dirty" sand (loam) which is unwashed sand with clay/silt particles.

For sand/cement plaster you need:
20% cement
80% clean sharp sand

1 ton of "dirty" sand costs 9€ !!!
1 ton of clean sharp sand costs 60€

So if we do the math:
cement: 0.22€/L
quicklime: 0.26€/L
clean sharp sand: 0.04€/L
dirty sand (loam): 0.006€/L !!!

earth/lime mortar costs 0.46€ for 1m2 plaster at 15mm thickness
sand/cement mortar costs 1.14€ for 1m2 plaster at 15mm thickness

So when you're plastering a house with earth/lime mortar, you roughly save 55% on material costs.

In terms of plastering, there is little difference between earth/lime and sand/cement with added plasticizer. It has the same weight. The only real difference is the set time. Sand/cement will harden within 24 hours and be fully cured after a month or so. Earth/lime initially dries out and then takes up to 3 months to fully cure and reach its full strength. In practise, after about 1 week it is usually sufficiently hard for finishing, probably even earlier. Also, on high suction masonry backgrounds, it will harden within half an hour because the masonry sucks out the moisture. So in terms of organisation and also the method of spreading/ruling/floating is different from the sand/cement method where you would usually kill the suction to give you enough time to spread a wall in one go and then rule it off. With earth/lime you can't kill the suction because that would defeat the main purpose of using this plaster (stimulation the convective drying capacity of the wall system). So earth/lime is applied in the traditional method before suction killing chemicals were invented. This is the method @Smudger1 was talking about.

But since you're not applying pva/sbr to the walls, you save time and money. But you do add a little bit of time because you have to form screeds on the masonry and then fill them in. Although I think in practice, this added time is negligible.

So really, in terms of cost/efficiency as well sustainability (stimulating convective drying and thus largely eliminating damp problems), earth/lime mortar makes sense from an initial standpoint (cheaper initial cost) but also in the long term, because costs related to (future) damp issues will be decreased dramatically.

Earth/lime is the future. It's much more fun to work with (imo). It has a much nicer colour (earth toned) and it spreads like butter without having to add plasticiser. It also smells lovely... it's hard to explain the smell, but adding the quicklime to it, it give it a sort of earthy and sweet smell. It's very enjoyable to work with.

Also; there is ZERO WASTE with earth lime. At the end of the day, if you have gear left, just put it in plastic bag or leave it in a tub or bucket and just cover it. The mortar will be perfectly fine as long as the moisture stays in it. I've kept earth/lime mortar in plastic bags for months.

I haven't done much cement work so I don't know how cement affects your skin. The earth/lime can burn your hands but I've never worn gloves. In fact, working with lime taught me to be more neat. If you work neat, your hands will be fine.

edit:
I forgot to add: earth/lime is more flexible than sand/cement. So slight movements in the house won't affect it as much as it would sand/cement. Lime also has self-healing properties, it can deal with microcracks.
Even tho earth/lime is more flexible, it is still strong. If you punch the wall, the skin on your fist will split before the wall does. And yes, I've tested this.

Online, you also read a lot about home owners complaining they can't find any plasterers that want to do lime plastering. I'm pretty sure that if you get into this game, you can charge a little more because lime plasterers are hard to find. So yeah... material costs are lower, you're giving your customers a better product and you'll make more money.

There is absolutely no reason why you guys shouldn't be doing this. Imagine the best plasterers took matters into their own hands and start changing the industry from the bottom up...

Before the technological revolution, the mortar design was decided by the craftsmen. Traditionally, this has always been so. But then some idiots who sit in an office all day decided they knew better... and the irony? These same people are now slowly starting to realise that we have to reduce our reliance on cement... And the solution is literally hidden within the listed properties from the past, built by our great ancestors.

Thousands of years of tradition has a lot of common sense and wisdom in it. Until "scientists" and "industrial lobby" and "corrupt governments" ruined it.
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How old are you mate ? If you don't mind me asking .
 
Thanks. I think every age has value though. I do realise that I tend to be a little bit too idealistic at times. That's why I try to seek advice from people who are more experienced to bring some balance and pragmatism to my crazy ideas.

I've been self-employed all my life. I've never been an employee. I can't stand the idea of working for some rich c**t and making him richer. I only took up plastering about 3-4 years ago though but fell in love with it.

Even though I'm not (yet) a plasterer who is worth his weight in salt, I do feel that having 10+ years of experience being self-employed (and making many, many mistakes) that I have a good shot at making this work. If I wasn't into this lime/earth stuff, I would probably still team up with an older gypsum plasterer and work for him for another couple year until I was a good enough plasterer. Unfortunately, no one in my area works with earth/lime and I'm just too passionate about it to put it off any longer. At age 30 I also started to realise that I'm getting older and that time goes by fast. So I don't want to waste any more time. I have no big financial responsibilities currently, so I can afford to start pricing my own jobs, fail at it for a year or so, and gradually hustle my way through it.

My priority now is 1. getting customers and 2. perfect my understanding of earth/lime mixes.
Once I got those two, that's when I'll be focusing on efficiency, which is what you guys have trying to drill into me.
First goal will be 30m2 per day consistently. Second goal 40m2 and so on. I'll see how much I can push my body and I'm definitely quitting smoking in order to maximise my body's potential. But I'm always going to be mindful of my physical limits because there are no medals for putting yourself in the hospital.
 
what about you though? How long have you been a plasterer? What kind of jobs are you currently doing? And how much m2 can you do in day? Btw, if you can't do 70m2, you can't post here.
 
Woods said:
To finish the earth/lime base coat, you can also design your own plaster. You can add loam (finely screened) to give it colour and texture. You could use very fine sharp sand. You can also do marmer dust or chaulk like the venetians tended to do. There are a lot of different earth pigments you can add as well. Because here comes the fun: Your skim coat you work so hard on, now becomes the final look. It does not need painting! You can still paint it if you want, with lime or clay based paints or other vapour open paints. But honestly, the look and feel of a well skimmed lime plaster wall is second to none. You can polish it into a mirror or you can sponge float it to give it a sleek, soft textured feel. It really brings back the craftsmenship and every plasterer will develop their own styles and give their walls a unique character.
Not only will walls be so much more beautiful to look at, they'll also be healthier and since it doesn't require paint, it also saves the customer even more $$. And this would perfectly justify you charging a bit more for your services.

Also, for customers that want to save as much as they can, you can also offer to just give them the earth/lime base coat without skim. If you sponge float finish them or even burnish them with the trowel, you can get extremely attractive finishes as well. Because this plaster is not dull, dark grey like concrete. It's usually a light, earthy, brown and if you sponge float it, the various coloured sand particles also show through so you get a very beautiful, elegant look. Picture is one possible example. Final colour will depend on the loam and sand you use. You can also add pigment to alter the colour.

Basically, the possibilities are endless

View attachment 80229
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Time was key
The most important!

There was a massive need for houses - and fast.

Also lots of tradesman and craftsmen were lost in WW1,

Other people learned quick and mucked in.

Likewise after WW2 aswell.
The fast rebuild of damage and the increasing need for the whole booming generation.


But the lime house building was a way slower process. I think with cement house/home/building designs were tweaked to accommodate. It could be produced very fast and utilised even faster.

Lime was put on the back burner, but still saved for the prestige and listed buildings.

Going full circle now though.

Lots of info and tradesmans knowledge was almost lost.

Even now only a smallish percentage have the know....

It'll change though in the coming years, Co2 is the push.
 
bobski said:
Time was key
The most important!

There was a massive need for houses - and fast.

Also lots of tradesman and craftsmen were lost in WW1,

Other people learned quick and mucked in.

Likewise after WW2 aswell.
The fast rebuild of damage and the increasing need for the whole booming generation.


But the lime house building was a way slower process. I think with cement house/home/building designs were tweaked to accommodate. It could be produced very fast and utilised even faster.

Lime was put on the back burner, but still saved for the prestige and listed buildings.

Going full circle now though.

Lots of info and tradesmans knowledge was almost lost.

Even now only a smallish percentage have the know....

It'll change though in the coming years, Co2 is the push.
Click to expand...
yeah there's always historical context to account for. Thanks for sharing that insight though, because I think it's very meaningful.
I would highly recommend Nigel Copsey's book if haven't read it already. He's been a mason in the restoration game all his life but he's also a very scholarly fellow, uses very fancy words and all. His scholarly work involved sourcing old building documents from all over the world to piece back together the traditional tradesman's knowledge. He's worked together with scientists who put his discoveries to the test by analysing old mortar and looking to understand how traditional masonry wall assemblies worked and why they worked so well.
There is one misconception though... I do not believe that we can't build fast and efficient with traditional materials. I believe the cement industry just forced us into it. Why? Because traditionally, lime was burned in the local kilns; every town had at least one kiln. Many of their ruins you can still find all around. The cement industry wanted to destroy the competition for financial gain. It's always about the money.

In terms of masonry construction, I think the best way to build blocks is by compressing raw earth with a 5% slaked quicklime addition. The compressive strength is more than adequate, but the blocks are extremely cheap to produce.



But in terms of efficiency, I believe timber is the way to go. Think about the stick frame houses they build in USA. They are not weak. The reason they failed is because they used too much vapour impermeable materials in the wall assembly. Moisture gets trapped inside the wall, and starts destroying the wood. This problem is completely resolved if you optimise the convective drying capacity of the wall assembly. The wood stays dry and will last for centuries. Unlike reinforced concrete, which is literally designed to last 50 years.

Timber can literally last thousands of years if it stays dry (traditional japanese construction proves this as well as half-timbered European (and British) houses that have lasted up to 500 years). Again, convective drying capacity is the key.

A timber house structure can be built in days. Insulated in days. Roofed in a week. Plastered in a couple of weeks.

Timber houses can also still be fitted with brick facades so we can also appreciate the vastly superior aesthetics of traditional masonry craftsmanship.

Our young people these days have experience difficulty with affordable housing. Land prices is the number one culprit, but I also believe we can streamline the production processes as well.

Also... reinforced concrete = enslavement. If you build houses that only last 50 years, every generation has to basically tear down and rebuild most buildings. This is what keeps civilisations in debt. Imagine if the average building lasted 500 years, roughly 6 generations! Imagine how much debt we could undo.
 
Woods said:
But in terms of efficiency, I believe timber is the way to go. Think about the stick frame houses they build in USA. They are not weak. The reason they failed is because they used too much vapour impermeable materials in the wall assembly. Moisture gets trapped inside the wall, and starts destroying the wood. This problem is completely resolved if you optimise the convective drying capacity of the wall assembly. The wood stays dry and will last for centuries. Unlike reinforced concrete, which is literally designed to last 50 years.

Timber can literally last thousands of years if it stays dry (traditional japanese construction proves this as well as half-timbered European (and British) houses that have lasted up to 500 years). Again, convective drying capacity is the key.

A timber house structure can be built in days. Insulated in days. Roofed in a week. Plastered in a couple of weeks.

Timber houses can also still be fitted with brick facades so we can also appreciate the vastly superior aesthetics of traditional masonry craftsmanship.
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where does the earth lime plastering your promoting come into this scenario?

Sensible to quit smoking for health reasons, but why then use a product( quicklime)
That can also be detrimental to your health?
H&S here would want Mask, goggles, no bare skin, No mixing inside or dust extraction systems etc
 
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spread95 said:
where does the earth lime plastering your promoting come into this scenario?

Sensible to quit smoking for health reasons, but why then use a product( quicklime)
That can also be detrimental to your health?
H&S here would want Mask, goggles, no bare skin, No mixing inside or dust extraction systems etc
Click to expand...
Not saying that any plaster products are healthy to use just lime is the next step up.
 
spread95 said:
where does the earth lime plastering your promoting come into this scenario?

Sensible to quit smoking for health reasons, but why then use a product( quicklime)
That can also be detrimental to your health?
H&S here would want Mask, goggles, no bare skin, No mixing inside or dust extraction systems etc
Click to expand...
I slake my quicklime in a separate bucket. The ideal temperature for slaking quicklime is between 80 and 95°C. It's only if the water starts boiling that it would release steam. Generally to get quicklime to slake properly, you need 3 parts water to one part quicklime. So you add 3 parts water to the bucket and then slowly add the quicklime powder while stirring. The water gets hot and within a couple of minutes the quicklime is fully slaked without any gasses coming off. Then you add the lime milk to the mortar and that's it. You can also slake at a lower temperature (use more water), but then the slake needs a bit longer.
Earth/lime mortar only uses 5% quicklime. Quicklime expands at least 2.5 times after slaking, so your mortar will hold about 12'ish% lime. The other 15% binder is the clay. This makes the mortar feebly hydraulic.
If you mix it like this, there is no harm whatsoever.
Earth/lime mortar doesn't have enough lime in it to be really dangerous. I handle it with my bare hands all the time. The only time you get burns is when you apply constant friction to a piece of skin that is covered in mortar. On its own, it's fine. I even got little bits in my eye before and it won't hurt you. There's just not enough lime it it. I have though, a couple years ago, gotten NHL5 plaster in my eye. Now that hurt like a motherfucker and my eye took 2 weeks to heal. No such thing with earth/lime mortar tho.
 
spread95 said:
Not saying that any plaster products are healthy to use just lime is the next step up.
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keep in mind that if you're mixing a 100L batch, you're only using 5L of the powder. That's half a 10L bucket. I have a 1L measuring cup, take 5 scoops and add them to the mixing tub which already holds around 15-20L water and stir for a couple of minutes. Then I add clean sand, give it a little whisk and then add the loam and straw (for reinforcement). The straw isn't really necessary, but I find that it does help especially if you're applying very thick coats or are dubbing out walls. With the fibers added, the plaster gets significantly more tensile strength.
 
Totally different to mixing 2/ 3 barrowfulls of sand and cement in a mixer, hence the big difference in meterage in a day.
I'd still be careful with the lime, your skin changes over time.
I know plasterers been doing it for decades and then all of a sudden get dermatitis.
 
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spread95 said:
Totally different to mixing 2/ 3 barrowfulls of sand and cement in a mixer, hence the big difference in meterage in a day.
I'd still be careful with the lime, your skin changes over time.
I know plasterers been doing it for decades and then all of a sudden get dermatitis.
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do you mix 2/3 barrowfulls of sand/cement in a mixer indoors? 1 wheelbarrow is on avg. 100L, so I would just add 2 buckets of water to the mixer, then add 15L (one bucket'ish) of quicklime powder, let it mix for half a minute and then add one wheelbarrow of clean sharp sand and then 2 wheelbarrows of loam. Let that mix for 10 minutes and don't yet add more water until it has mixed and aireated properly. Then after 10 minutes add water to get the consistency you want. I've mixed many batches exactly like this in my drum mixer, it works really well and keeps the mixer fairly clean too!

Dermatitis from lime or cement plastering? I'll keep it in mind though, thanks!
 
Woods said:
do you mix 2/3 barrowfulls of sand/cement in a mixer indoors? 1 wheelbarrow is on avg. 100L, so I would just add 2 buckets of water to the mixer, then add 15L (one bucket'ish) of quicklime powder, let it mix for half a minute and then add one wheelbarrow of clean sharp sand and then 2 wheelbarrows of loam. Let that mix for 10 minutes and don't yet add more water until it has mixed and aireated properly. Then after 10 minutes add water to get the consistency you want. I've mixed many batches exactly like this in my drum mixer, it works really well and keeps the mixer fairly clean too!

Dermatitis from lime or cement plastering? I'll keep it in mind though, thanks!
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No outside, we used to get 10 ton of sand dropped mid way between 2 houses and a big diesel mixer chugging away all day. Then hardwall (bagged backing coat) started to take over.
The joy of hearing the bricks going round cleaning the mixer out at the end of the day, makes me smile even now.
 
spread95 said:
No outside, we used to get 10 ton of sand dropped mid way between 2 houses and a big diesel mixer chugging away all day. Then hardwall (bagged backing coat) started to take over.
The joy of hearing the bricks going round cleaning it out at the end of the day, makes me smile even now.
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lmao, yeah much better than having to clean it out by hand!

btw, my earlier question, was it the lime or the cement potentially causing dermatitis, it doesn't actually matter because portland cement is actually just a type of hydraulic lime. It's made by burning limestone and clay. The romans mixed volcanic ash with their quicklime but they also used... brick dust, which are just fired clays. So essentially, cement is just hydraulic lime (quicklime + fired clay pozzalana)
 
Woods said:
lmao, yeah much better than having to clean it out by hand!

btw, my earlier question, was it the lime or the cement potentially causing dermatitis, it doesn't actually matter because portland cement is actually just a type of hydraulic lime. It's made by burning limestone and clay. The romans mixed volcanic ash with their quicklime but they also used... brick dust, which are just fired clays. So essentially, cement is just hydraulic lime (quicklime + fired clay pozzalana)
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Lime, cement, gypsum products all dry your skin causing problems
Lime and cement when wet can cause burns.
We all tend to take precautions after the problems occur.
I dread to think the effect 30/35yrs of dust inhalation before I started wearing a mask is going to have in the future.
Never wore safety specs till a mate nearly lost sight in an eye doing a ceiling, even though I'd had plenty incidents of stuff in the eye!
Trouble is Safety stuff can make the job harder.
 
spread95 said:
Lime, cement, gypsum products all dry your skin causing problems
Lime and cement when wet can cause burns.
We all tend to take precautions after the problems occur.
I dread to think the effect 30/35yrs of dust inhalation before I started wearing a mask is going to have in the future.
Never wore safety specs till a mate nearly lost sight in an eye doing a ceiling, even though I'd had plenty incidents of stuff in the eye!
Trouble is Safety stuff can make the job harder.
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heard of a lad who lost an eye while spraying an exterior. He was changing a level on the scaffold and someone else had to pinch the pump while he climbed down. Then when the other guy handed him the pump, the other guy released the pinch prematurely and the lad got a face full of NHL and lost one eye in the process.
I stopped working with those guys because of stuff like that. Accidents can and will happen, but you're literally creating unnecessary situation like this if you're disorganised and if you push your team beyond their limits. Safety precautions get throw out, because like you said: safety stuff can make the job harder (slower).
That's why I had been so stubborn when you told me 70m2 a day is possible. I'd love to dish out large amounts like that, but never at the expense of common sense, reason and safety.
 
Monkey Boy said:
yes
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yeah maybe it's best to not take chances... I'll give this a go, try and work with gloves a couple of days and see if I like it

first lime/earth screed I laid, I wore shorts with me bare knees in the muck. You should've seen them when the job was done. Not doing that again
 
Woods said:
yeah there's always historical context to account for. Thanks for sharing that insight though, because I think it's very meaningful.
I would highly recommend Nigel Copsey's book if haven't read it already. He's been a mason in the restoration game all his life but he's also a very scholarly fellow, uses very fancy words and all. His scholarly work involved sourcing old building documents from all over the world to piece back together the traditional tradesman's knowledge. He's worked together with scientists who put his discoveries to the test by analysing old mortar and looking to understand how traditional masonry wall assemblies worked and why they worked so well.
There is one misconception though... I do not believe that we can't build fast and efficient with traditional materials. I believe the cement industry just forced us into it. Why? Because traditionally, lime was burned in the local kilns; every town had at least one kiln. Many of their ruins you can still find all around. The cement industry wanted to destroy the competition for financial gain. It's always about the money.

In terms of masonry construction, I think the best way to build blocks is by compressing raw earth with a 5% slaked quicklime addition. The compressive strength is more than adequate, but the blocks are extremely cheap to produce.



But in terms of efficiency, I believe timber is the way to go. Think about the stick frame houses they build in USA. They are not weak. The reason they failed is because they used too much vapour impermeable materials in the wall assembly. Moisture gets trapped inside the wall, and starts destroying the wood. This problem is completely resolved if you optimise the convective drying capacity of the wall assembly. The wood stays dry and will last for centuries. Unlike reinforced concrete, which is literally designed to last 50 years.

Timber can literally last thousands of years if it stays dry (traditional japanese construction proves this as well as half-timbered European (and British) houses that have lasted up to 500 years). Again, convective drying capacity is the key.

A timber house structure can be built in days. Insulated in days. Roofed in a week. Plastered in a couple of weeks.

Timber houses can also still be fitted with brick facades so we can also appreciate the vastly superior aesthetics of traditional masonry craftsmanship.

Our young people these days have experience difficulty with affordable housing. Land prices is the number one culprit, but I also believe we can streamline the production processes as well.

Also... reinforced concrete = enslavement. If you build houses that only last 50 years, every generation has to basically tear down and rebuild most buildings. This is what keeps civilisations in debt. Imagine if the average building lasted 500 years, roughly 6 generations! Imagine how much debt we could undo.
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ you really are a virgin ain’t ya
 
Woods said:
do you mix 2/3 barrowfulls of sand/cement in a mixer indoors? 1 wheelbarrow is on avg. 100L, so I would just add 2 buckets of water to the mixer, then add 15L (one bucket'ish) of quicklime powder, let it mix for half a minute and then add one wheelbarrow of clean sharp sand and then 2 wheelbarrows of loam. Let that mix for 10 minutes and don't yet add more water until it has mixed and aireated properly. Then after 10 minutes add water to get the consistency you want. I've mixed many batches exactly like this in my drum mixer, it works really well and keeps the mixer fairly clean too!

Dermatitis from lime or cement plastering? I'll keep it in mind though, thanks!
Click to expand...
That is one seriously big electric cement mixer!
400ltr drum?
 
essexandy said:
That is one seriously big electric cement mixer!
400ltr drum?
Click to expand...
No I was explaining how I would do it with a diesel mixer. I have an Imer synthesi 160. I usually mix 120L batches in it according to the method I explained.

I am currently contemplating getting a 200L mortar tub, elevate it about half a meter and have it on wheels and put it behind me as I'm working on the wall. If I start the wall at the top on a hop up and have the big mortar tub behind me, I could just mix the batch in situ with a double paddle mixer. This saves me from having to hod carry twice.

So I start the wall at the top and can just turn around and scoop up the gear from the tub, turn back around and spread. Rinse and repeat until the top is put on then. Then rule it off and float. Then move the hop up out of the way and put the bottom on, rule and float.

Then I push the mortar tub cart along, plumb up the next screed, jump on the hop up and fill in the top. Rule it off, float and hop down again to put on the bottom.

What do you think?
 
Woods said:
No I was explaining how I would do it with a diesel mixer. I have an Imer synthesi 160. I usually mix 120L batches in it according to the method I explained.

I am currently contemplating getting a 200L mortar tub, elevate it about half a meter and have it on wheels and put it behind me as I'm working on the wall. If I start the wall at the top on a hop up and have the big mortar tub behind me, I could just mix the batch in situ with a double paddle mixer. This saves me from having to hod carry twice.

So I start the wall at the top and can just turn around and scoop up the gear from the tub, turn back around and spread. Rinse and repeat until the top is put on then. Then rule it off and float. Then move the hop up out of the way and put the bottom on, rule and float.

Then I push the mortar tub cart along, plumb up the next screed, jump on the hop up and fill in the top. Rule it off, float and hop down again to put on the bottom.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
I nearly always used a spot board and stand at waste height. Shovel out of a barrow or bath onto it
Scooping all the time will f**k your wrists. I used spot board for skimming too, I mix 1 bag in a bucket and lift it onto board. 3 bag hits.
Plenty will disagree but it's worked for me
 
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Woods said:
No I was explaining how I would do it with a diesel mixer. I have an Imer synthesi 160. I usually mix 120L batches in it according to the method I explained.

I am currently contemplating getting a 200L mortar tub, elevate it about half a meter and have it on wheels and put it behind me as I'm working on the wall. If I start the wall at the top on a hop up and have the big mortar tub behind me, I could just mix the batch in situ with a double paddle mixer. This saves me from having to hod carry twice.

So I start the wall at the top and can just turn around and scoop up the gear from the tub, turn back around and spread. Rinse and repeat until the top is put on then. Then rule it off and float. Then move the hop up out of the way and put the bottom on, rule and float.

Then I push the mortar tub cart along, plumb up the next screed, jump on the hop up and fill in the top. Rule it off, float and hop down again to put on the bottom.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
Obviously I don't know your material or the substrate you're applying to, here I would always get a wall, or section on and ruled top to bottom before I'd need to float it up.
My main concern would be having to constantly scoop from a tub, I know from experience that it puts way more fatigue on the body than taking material from the correct height spot board.
 
spread95 said:
I always use a spot board and stand at waste height. Shovel out of a barrow or bath onto it
Scooping will f**k your wrists. I use spot board for skimming too, I mix 1 bag in a bucket and lift it onto board. 3 bag hits.
Plenty will disagree but it's worked for me
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I take small scoops and if the gear is not too stiff, it's not bad on my wrists. But I do agree that incorrect use of a trowel and stiff mud will f**k up your wrist. One thing I forgot to mention was that I would only put the very top of the wall on with handboard and trowel. The rest I would do with a go-devil because it's more ergonomic and faster. As shown in this thread: https://www.plasterersforum.com/threads/anyone-know-where-i-can-get-this-machine.94124/

essexandy said:
Obviously I don't know your material or the substrate you're applying to, here I would always get a wall, or section on and ruled top to bottom before I'd need to float it up.
My main concern would be having to constantly scoop from a tub, I know from experience that it puts way more fatigue on the body than taking material from the correct height spot board.
Click to expand...
on old brick, the plaster is too dry to float within half an hour, so I usually put on like 2m2 and float it straight away. I'm also going to start using a power float to increase speed and ergonomy.
Smudger1 said:
5 days between lime coats could be an issue on jobs here ?
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afaik, lime plaster coats will always chemically bond with each other, no matter how dry or cured they are. I've skimmed earth/lime base coats with a finer and more pure lime plaster and had no issues with it. It bonded well and haven't experienced any delamination. The only thing I noticed is that if your base coat has cracks due the base coat being detached from the wall (cavity, hollow sound when you tap it) due to improper spreading, those cracks will show through in your skim coat. But I don't think that's specific to lime plasters exclusively.
I tend to take James' words with a pinch of salt because I don't agree with everything he says and does.
 
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