Bonding failed??

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PlasterCraftDundee

PlasterCraftDundee

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Hi guys, had a complete nightmare on a job today. had a pretty heavy textured ceiling to do, so gave a it a coat of pva, over it with bonding, bonding set as normal, gave it a finish coat job was looking good. cleaned up put all furniture back in the room.
Was doing another ceiling in the next room and BANG! went next door, half the ceiling was on the floor! the joint where it fell had a gap between the orignal ceiling, I scraped it with a trowel to take off the slack and the rest of the ceiling dropped!

Has anyone seen this happen before? I'm going to contact british gypsum tomorrow, but wanted to know what you guys think first.

cheers
 
The paint is still on the original ceiling though. whole days work completely ruined! just glad it happened when i was still there and not later on when the family were sitting watching tv, they have a wee 3 year old, could have been nasty
 
Always overboard these artex ceilings or completely remove then board. Takes away any chance of failure.
 
I doubt the bonding failed, More likely the pva ,grease etc on the ceiling, we all have had days like this
 
Should have pre grit or similar on artex. Went to look at 25m ceiling today, heavy artex, water damaged and she's a smoker. Said no chance I'm skimming it, overboard is only option and friendly advice if anyone says it's fine to skim just be warned that it can fail.
 
Youre wasting you're time contacting bg. You used pva for a start. Theyll say you should have used bond it. Over board artex or skim with no guarantee. Someone off here told me a while ago they overskimmed artex. Turned out itd been artexed on wallpaper. Why should we have to go back foc to put that right?
 
Ive used bonding with pva hundred of times and never had a problem, what would you use instead?

well if its the bonding thats failed, then theres a fault with their product?
 
give bg a call see how it goes :rolleyes), but i bet you wont use pva under bonding again on a artex lid
 
i wasnt having a go, was just wondering what you would reccomend instead of pva. i realize now i wont get far with them seeing as ive not used their bonding agent. haha im doubting ill go near an artex ceilign with anything now, not after the hassle of today
 
The bonding hasn't failed. The pva did. Probably because of grease or nicotine. Too many variables with artex. What's under the artex. Has it been painted since etc. With bonding and skimming you're putting a lot of unsupported weight on the ceiling
 
So basically ive used the wrong bonding agent? I just dont understand, ive always bonded over artex ceilings using pva and never had a problem. so if i use bond it or artex sealer then i should have no more ceilings on the floor?
surely im not alone using pva, someone else tell me they do it and make me feel better, cos the beer isnt helping haha!
 
PlasterCraftDundee said:
So basically ive used the wrong bonding agent? I just dont understand, ive always bonded over artex ceilings using pva and never had a problem. so if i use bond it or artex sealer then i should have no more ceilings on the floor?
surely im not alone using pva, someone else tell me they do it and make me feel better, cos the beer isnt helping haha!
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We all use pva but there are better products, nothing is equal in the plastering world
 
PlasterCraftDundee said:
So basically ive used the wrong bonding agent? I just dont understand, ive always bonded over artex ceilings using pva and never had a problem. so if i use bond it or artex sealer then i should have no more ceilings on the floor?
surely im not alone using pva, someone else tell me they do it and make me feel better, cos the beer isnt helping haha!
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I ve always used pva never had one fail like that
 
Only ceiling we had fail was a normal re-skim. Customer (we knew him, he was a QS) said he'd PVA'd the ceiling for us.. He hadn't and admitted it afterwards.. Told us it was like a china cabinet being pushed over n the middle of the night - all the lot was on the floor in pieces lol.

I've often found when artex fails it's very powdery on the back where it's shelled off. Just finished re-skimming a full living room (Artexed ceiling and walls, bark pattern. We got the customer to 2 coat PVA it a few days before, not had any problem at all which was nice.
 
beddy said:
The bonding hasn't failed. The pva did. Probably because of grease or nicotine. Too many variables with artex. What's under the artex. Has it been painted since etc. With bonding and skimming you're putting a lot of unsupported weight on the ceiling
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what he said
 
artex is a plastic coating. we always scrape the artex first to break it open, pva and skim. on thick patterns we scrape, pva, a tight coat of bonding mixed 50/50 with hardwall to give suction and skim. our choice of pva is one that feels tacky just before we apply the bonding. you do not need the pva to weak or to strong neither applied to thick or to thin.
the decoration on the artex also gives you a clue what is going to happen, i like to see the artex dull with a matt finish. when i see it with silk emulsion and the ceiling shinny i know it is going to be quicker to overboard.
 
PlasterCraftDundee said:
So basically ive used the wrong bonding agent? I just dont understand, ive always bonded over artex ceilings using pva and never had a problem. so if i use bond it or artex sealer then i should have no more ceilings on the floor?
surely im not alone using pva, someone else tell me they do it and make me feel better, cos the beer isnt helping haha!
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Even with bonding agents you're still only going onto whats there. It can happen with normal skim on skim but rarely does. In alot of cases artex has been used to cover a world of shhit. Often done by a diyer. If the artex isn't a sound substrate you're gonna have problems. I've never used artex sealer so cant comment. I always always price for overboard and overskim offering only a guarantee on the overboard.
 
church said:
give bg a call see how it goes :rolleyes), but i bet you wont use pva under bonding again on a artex lid
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BG will just tell you not to slam the door so hard next time..........................:RpS_thumbsup:
 
PlasterCraftDundee said:
Ive used bonding with pva hundred of times and never had a problem, what would you use instead?

well if its the bonding thats failed, then theres a fault with their product?
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so have i. with a bit of grit or multi mixed in. never had a problem. not while i was there, anyway. maybe it fell on their heads later ... but i'm sure i would have had a call :RpS_unsure: but like beddy says, you dont know whats under it. went to skim an artexed ceiling last week, quite big, including the frieze. scraped the high points off the ceiling with the razor scraper, then started scraping the frieze and it tore at the seams, thought it was the joint tape, but carried on and found the whole ceiling had been artex over lining paper. had to scrape like fcuk on the ceiling to get back to it but there it was. you just never know. its made me think more about things. and then when i went to ba nd q this morn they gave me a free asbestos kit ... wondered if that was some kind of portent.

anyway, i digress, told her shed have to get it scraped. she didnt look very happy. told her to phone me when it was done etc. i wasnt that bothered because it was sunny and i didnt feel like doing the artex ceiling anyway. just went off and finished a small render job on an outhouse. that guy had colon cancer. anyway, she texted me this morning and asked when could i do it and i said about two weeks. maybe. no reply. yeah, anyway, then i get in tonight and get an alert off mybuilder about a job skimming artex ceilings. the customer has been "let down" by a plasterer and needs the work doing urgently. yep, it was her .... go figure :RpS_confused:
 
I won't scrape artex ceilings now with the asbestos threat, although the amount I've scrapped in the past should see me off , I uni- bond artex allow to go tacky almost dry, then I use 3 big handfuls of bonding in the first coat of finish, second coat goes on a treat, ( don't get on it too early ) never had a problem, works on most finishes of artex, unles it's been put on with a shovel, then price to overboard, have a go
 
Birdythespread said:
I won't scrape artex ceilings now with the asbestos threat, although the amount I've scrapped in the past should see me off , I uni- bond artex allow to go tacky almost dry, then I use 3 big handfuls of bonding in the first coat of finish, second coat goes on a treat, ( don't get on it too early ) never had a problem, works on most finishes of artex, unles it's been put on with a shovel, then price to overboard, have a go
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As I understand it the asbestos should only be in ones from about 1950/1960
Not sure if that's correct but for some reason I have I have that in my head ... and if you are concerned there are company's that for about £20/30 you can have a sample tested. ....
I don't bother because if it comes back a positive then it has to be removed be a specific asbestos company and should not even overboard. ....But please double check this as these are just thoughts don't want to say that it's the way with out concrete proof
As I say just a brain fart
 
markj said:
As I understand it the asbestos should only be in ones from about 1950/1960
Not sure if that's correct but for some reason I have I have that in my head ... and if you are concerned there are company's that for about £20/30 you can have a sample tested. ....
I don't bother because if it comes back a positive then it has to be removed be a specific asbestos company and should not even overboard. ....But please double check this as these are just thoughts don't want to say that it's the way with out concrete proof
As I say just a brain fart
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Asbestos used upto the 90s,it got weaker though
 
You can download a free copy of the asbestos regs and guidance here https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l143.htm

For an artex ceiling "decorative finish containing asbestos" there is no need to remove it and working on it does not require a license. Acceptable practice is to seal it so that no loose fibres are released. That can be paint, plaster, sealant etc and/or overboarding. You just need to make sure that you notify the customer that it may contain asbestos in writing which means no drilling or scraping without a suitable means of dust collection.

So basically, don't scrape it. If it's too rough to cover with plaster direct then it should be boarded.
 
leebo02 said:
hows the other ceiling you done in the other room @PlasterCraftDundee
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other ceiling is fine, that wasnt as heavy textured as the other one so got away with just a skim over it. Tried my luck with british gypsum and they basically said they wont gaurentee any of their products going over artex except uni finish
 
Bonding failed??
Here's what happened to me few months back, artex was on paper. Had to pay for full re board and cove out my own money. Happened twice since then but customers have been pre warned and they covered extra costs. Won't be caught out again.
 
stuart23 said:
View attachment 3991
Here's what happened to me few months back, artex was on paper. Had to pay for full re board and cove out my own money. Happened twice since then but customers have been pre warned and they covered extra costs. Won't be caught out again.
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looks mustard,Stu.........................:RpS_thumbup:
 
stuart23 said:
View attachment 3991
Here's what happened to me few months back, artex was on paper. Had to pay for full re board and cove out my own money. Happened twice since then but customers have been pre warned and they covered extra costs. Won't be caught out again.
Click to expand...

Ouch!!

Done many council houses where someone's skimmed over paper, after throwing on and on first trowel all comes away :-(
 
markj said:
As I understand it the asbestos should only be in ones from about 1950/1960
Not sure if that's correct but for some reason I have I have that in my head ... and if you are concerned there are company's that for about £20/30 you can have a sample tested. ....
I don't bother because if it comes back a positive then it has to be removed be a specific asbestos company and should not even overboard. ....But please double check this as these are just thoughts don't want to say that it's the way with out concrete proof
As I say just a brain fart
Click to expand...

Any pre 1990s house should be tested that's what I say Upto them if they take the advice
 
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