Ceiling failed
- Thread starter ClarkPlastering
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ClarkPlastering
New Member
Im not diagreeing that overboarding can prevent problems in a majority of jobs, but in this case the boards would have been screwed into battens that were not at all sound or strong enough for the current ceiling and certainly not another layer of boards therefore it would have all come down anyway,
maybe would have found out before i skimmed it but the end result that it all needs dropped and replaced would have always been the same
maybe would have found out before i skimmed it but the end result that it all needs dropped and replaced would have always been the same
I have just over skimmed 6 ceilings in a house and have not guaranteed one. Explained why and they understood. As we were walking round the house when I went to quote I noticed the hsl lids were smooth but could tell by coving line they'd been over skimmed. They had a couple of cracks in. Glad they did because they proved I wasnt bullshiting them. Regardless of that they still went with the overskim options and I had it written in my quote and invoice that no guarantee was given.
Loren
Active Member
Unfortunate for you, I'm thinking that the owner relies on the 'Expert' to identify any existing or potential problems with the ceiling before proceeding with finishes. I never add a layer of board over existing plaster ceilings, too much liability with the extra weight in my opinion, and always check ceiling with a straight edge to see if any of it is hanging down also check all cracking to make sure areas are solid, if I suspect there are loose areas I just put the repairs into the bid. Throw some extra in for some repairs that are little surprises.
i would have not given them the option of second reskim. remove cove overboard with the correct length screws, and skim and recove.
I gave them two options. And put both prices on my invoice. overskim and remove cove overboard skim recove. Explain the reasons and benefits and let them make a decision. They had 6 over skimmed and 1 overboarded and recoved.
Sometimes over boarding strengthens the ceiling. If you've got a fragile old lath and plaster ceiling, screwing up 12.5mm pb with 75mm screws through the whole lot into joists will be a safer bet than skimming on top.
northyskim
Member
i went to price job up in october was a water damaged kitchen ceiling
was explaining to customer how you cant just reskim and needs re-boarding due to the damage
i pushed on the ceiling gentley to show em the sag
me hand went stright thru there kitchening ceiling there face was a picture but i got the job haha
was explaining to customer how you cant just reskim and needs re-boarding due to the damage
i pushed on the ceiling gentley to show em the sag
me hand went stright thru there kitchening ceiling there face was a picture but i got the job haha
ClarkPlastering
New Member
I always check a ceiling with a level when I quote, it was as good as perfect. Not one single rack in the artex and no nail popping at all, it was even solid to push,
Suggesting over boarding in this situation would strengthen it? You would be screwing plasterboard to a 4.9 meter batten which only held up with five 40mm nails that support 5 sheets already, the weight of a skim coat brought it down, suggesting plasterboard and skim coat would have been a better choice issue just an over sight, I'd be very impressed if yous managed to tell me how many nails were used and how secure the battens were by looking at an artex ceiling regardless what checks you carried out, it's not the sheets that have come away it's the frame that separated
Suggesting over boarding in this situation would strengthen it? You would be screwing plasterboard to a 4.9 meter batten which only held up with five 40mm nails that support 5 sheets already, the weight of a skim coat brought it down, suggesting plasterboard and skim coat would have been a better choice issue just an over sight, I'd be very impressed if yous managed to tell me how many nails were used and how secure the battens were by looking at an artex ceiling regardless what checks you carried out, it's not the sheets that have come away it's the frame that separated
Hi Clarkeplastering,
For what its worth mate I genuinely think that your approach was correct and that you couldn't be expected to have picked up on this problem. As you yourself have already said overboarding wouldn't have solved the problem the only benefit depending on how you look at it was that it may have made the ceiling drop earlier thus giving yourself the opportunity to show the customer prior to skimming off.
In these circumstances personally I think its more important how you deal with the situation than what has actually happened. Your obviously someone that cares which is why you've posted. If it was me rightly or wrongly I would as others have said explain that it was an underlying problem that you could not have foreseen and be accountable for. Though as a gesture of support you will carry out the required labour providing they pay for the materials.
Good Luck mate and don't let it spoil your xmas hols these things happen from time to time to all of us in some way or another and are sickening just have to overcome with reputation in tact if you go about it the correct way they will think a lot more of you in the long run than if it hadn't happened if there decent people!
zombie:RpS_thumbsup:
For what its worth mate I genuinely think that your approach was correct and that you couldn't be expected to have picked up on this problem. As you yourself have already said overboarding wouldn't have solved the problem the only benefit depending on how you look at it was that it may have made the ceiling drop earlier thus giving yourself the opportunity to show the customer prior to skimming off.
In these circumstances personally I think its more important how you deal with the situation than what has actually happened. Your obviously someone that cares which is why you've posted. If it was me rightly or wrongly I would as others have said explain that it was an underlying problem that you could not have foreseen and be accountable for. Though as a gesture of support you will carry out the required labour providing they pay for the materials.
Good Luck mate and don't let it spoil your xmas hols these things happen from time to time to all of us in some way or another and are sickening just have to overcome with reputation in tact if you go about it the correct way they will think a lot more of you in the long run than if it hadn't happened if there decent people!
zombie:RpS_thumbsup:
bubbles65
Well-Known Member
That's a fair comment zombie. Remember this, "It's not what they think at the time, it's what they they think when you've gone"
Most reasonable customers will appreciate and understand your endeavours but you will always get the odd uncompromising one. I've been fortunate or experienced enough to spot a **** before committing to working for them :RpS_thumbup:
Most reasonable customers will appreciate and understand your endeavours but you will always get the odd uncompromising one. I've been fortunate or experienced enough to spot a **** before committing to working for them :RpS_thumbup:
Loren
Active Member
Well, my part of the world we always gotta figure in the fact that we get some pretty good earthquakes every ten years or so which will break the paper around the screw heads. If I'm putting up board it's only because I removed all the old plaster, and usually in that case they hire a gang of Mexicans to demo, hang board & tape and I don't get the job. For the last 15 years I have been embedding fiberglass sheeting into all purpose joint compound followed by up to three more coats letting each coat dry before putting on the next. There usually is a crown mould run around the room and this type of overlay strengthens the existing plaster and it also allows for little intrusion against any mouldings.
Loren
Active Member
I went out to look at installing a couple of new niches in a dining room & they asked me to look at the ceiling, I looked up and the only thing holding up the whole ceiling was the 15 lbs of air pressure in the room. It looked like 90% of the key was gone it was hanging down 7- 10 cm from the lath. I told the general contractor that they ought to get all the furniture carefully out of the room don't allow any of the owners into the room and demo the plaster as soon as possible. He covered the room put plywood on the floor and he said the first go at it with a margin trowel the whole ceiling came crashing down at once. They sheet rocked & taped the ceiling & I still got to do the niches.
I wasn't implying you should have overboarded I was replying to another poster. I think you did the right thing in the situation.
Didn't notice you were from across the pond, I guess methods are different over there.
Marshy
Private Member
Its getting multi national on the forum these days :RpS_thumbup:
Loren
Active Member
This is no longer a trade (in my area) that I'd recommend to anybody that wants to make a good living, because you're right, everything's gone drywall around here. We used to have around 400 + plasterers in the Seattle area when I was younger. Now the population has doubled and I don't know if you could find more than 150 of us around here now and most of them are clueless about anything discussed on this forum. One thing that has gotten me quite a bit of work has been figuring out how to make drywall match the plaster textures.
Loren
Active Member
Across the pond and then some (7,700 kilometers). I like this forum because it's interesting to see the different ways you approach things in the UK. A lot of the terminology is different and I'd be lost in one of your material supply houses. Our scaffold looks a lot different than yours also.
Loren
Active Member
I work mainly on "older" houses around here that were built from 1914 - 1958 after that most were built with sheetrock walls & ceilings and before that this area was sparsely settled and it's rare that you would find many of the buildings and houses still around that were built in the 1800's. Now days I'm never surprised that the general contractors I'm recommended to have never worked with a plastering contractor before.
Loren
Active Member
Hi Lucius, You're right I am quite specialized for this area, for quite a few years I was naming my price but I always tried to keep it reasonable, because I never wanted to alienate contractors who I do repeat business with. Having been in the industry for so many years I've witnessed quite a few economic ups and downs and realize how important those contacts are when things slow down. If you had purchased a house around here in 2005- 2008 you probably now owe more on the house than you could sell it for. So the recovery as been slow and long, luckily I get plugged into some of the high end jobs where the owners are wealthy enough that the economy isn't affecting what they spend on their houses. But with the crap economy they expect reasonable pricing, and with a lot of the "fill in" work not happening, things are pretty tough around here yet.
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