Ewi my own house
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BrummieTrev
Member
@plasterjfe Thanks for your input, I fully understand and agree with everything you say. This is where I stand with the product at the moment.
I like the product, its transformed many council estates in Birmingham where I live. (shame about the ex-council houses who havent had the money to get it done, they now stand out like a saw thumb especially on terraced houses) Targeting these houses will be a big market soon I think.
It would be fair to assume that IF installed correctly to the manufacturers spec, it is impossible for the product itself to fail, hence the reason poor installation always the cause.
What causes poor installation?
(theory1) Trying to get as many £150s as possible out of people providing inadequate training. (impossible for product failure, always installers fault, "quickly show em how to fix board, how apply base coat and mesh and how to top coat, dash or slip-brick. That will do, sign em off, train the next lot up tomorrow, more £150s). How do they get away with it? What would happen if I turned up at a driving test centre, ragged the life out of examiners car, give him £150 and walked away with licence or turned up at corgi, soldered a gas pipe together, paid them £150 and walked out corgi registered, id have the police at my door and so would they for passing me as competent.
(Theory 2) Business men who know nothing about EWI or plastering creaming their slice of the pie setting up EWI installation companys and paying the subbie shite rates causing them to cut corners and get done as much as possible to earn a living. Its become that greedy ive seen companys advertising for boarders paying minimum wage (as if its a labourers job) and then advertising for plasterers to do just the beading and spreading. How do they get away with it?
Back to my original question. Is an EWI product warranty really worth the paper its written on AFTER installation?
This is just based on my knowledge of the EWI trade and my CURRENT opinion. Again, i hope nobody on here is offened by any of my comments, nothing against EWI spreads, maybe I just need educating on the subject.
I like the product, its transformed many council estates in Birmingham where I live. (shame about the ex-council houses who havent had the money to get it done, they now stand out like a saw thumb especially on terraced houses) Targeting these houses will be a big market soon I think.
It would be fair to assume that IF installed correctly to the manufacturers spec, it is impossible for the product itself to fail, hence the reason poor installation always the cause.
What causes poor installation?
(theory1) Trying to get as many £150s as possible out of people providing inadequate training. (impossible for product failure, always installers fault, "quickly show em how to fix board, how apply base coat and mesh and how to top coat, dash or slip-brick. That will do, sign em off, train the next lot up tomorrow, more £150s). How do they get away with it? What would happen if I turned up at a driving test centre, ragged the life out of examiners car, give him £150 and walked away with licence or turned up at corgi, soldered a gas pipe together, paid them £150 and walked out corgi registered, id have the police at my door and so would they for passing me as competent.
(Theory 2) Business men who know nothing about EWI or plastering creaming their slice of the pie setting up EWI installation companys and paying the subbie shite rates causing them to cut corners and get done as much as possible to earn a living. Its become that greedy ive seen companys advertising for boarders paying minimum wage (as if its a labourers job) and then advertising for plasterers to do just the beading and spreading. How do they get away with it?
Back to my original question. Is an EWI product warranty really worth the paper its written on AFTER installation?
This is just based on my knowledge of the EWI trade and my CURRENT opinion. Again, i hope nobody on here is offened by any of my comments, nothing against EWI spreads, maybe I just need educating on the subject.
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Curry
Private Member
Theory 2 is to blame.
Most of the guys teaching do actually give a shite about the job they do and wont pass muppets. It looks bad on them even if it is a applicators fault. These £150 are small change to the likes or weber etc and to think they would risk their reputation for that is just silly
Most of the guys teaching do actually give a shite about the job they do and wont pass muppets. It looks bad on them even if it is a applicators fault. These £150 are small change to the likes or weber etc and to think they would risk their reputation for that is just silly
plasterjfe
Private Member
I agree with both theory 1 and 2 as problems.
1 the training given can be very good as good as you can get in a day and in good faith from the manufacturer but remember it should be aimed at already skilled plasterers and renderers.
It is crazy to assume that after 1 days applicator training you can expect a guy to fit to any standard. like any trade the app training should be done in co-ordination with on site experience working with skilled experienced men guiding you. any lads you take with no previous experience should be carefully monitored and guided by skilled hands, but no reason why they cant be trained up to a good standard.
I dont believe that manufacturers are handing out a training day and letting loose men on the product - far from it they would have a fit if they thought firms were doing this, its prob the firms and the middle men and the chancers who mis read the situation and think "hey look we can a day course and be fully up and running as an EWI installer" which leads into theory 2 the men creaming of the top and keeping labour rates at rock bottom asking forcing faster faster mentality or cutting corners in other words - a man needs to eat he will do what he needs to eat not take care of someones house. thats where its at right now in terms of rates too -shocking really for a "specialist installation" its the most legislated highly accredited lowest paid job going ? ? baffling aint it
1 the training given can be very good as good as you can get in a day and in good faith from the manufacturer but remember it should be aimed at already skilled plasterers and renderers.
It is crazy to assume that after 1 days applicator training you can expect a guy to fit to any standard. like any trade the app training should be done in co-ordination with on site experience working with skilled experienced men guiding you. any lads you take with no previous experience should be carefully monitored and guided by skilled hands, but no reason why they cant be trained up to a good standard.
I dont believe that manufacturers are handing out a training day and letting loose men on the product - far from it they would have a fit if they thought firms were doing this, its prob the firms and the middle men and the chancers who mis read the situation and think "hey look we can a day course and be fully up and running as an EWI installer" which leads into theory 2 the men creaming of the top and keeping labour rates at rock bottom asking forcing faster faster mentality or cutting corners in other words - a man needs to eat he will do what he needs to eat not take care of someones house. thats where its at right now in terms of rates too -shocking really for a "specialist installation" its the most legislated highly accredited lowest paid job going ? ? baffling aint it
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BrummieTrev
Member
This is the best post yet on this subject, certainly cleared up a few issues i had, and so does @CurrierPlastering post I agree £150 is small change to the likes of weber etc when you look at the bigger picture, and yes, im sure the teachers do care about their jobs and what they do.
The only reason I started to dig deep on the subject was to find out why @johniosaif as a plasterer couldnt install EWI on his own house and have it gauranteed.
I now realise a training course would be beneficial to all plasterers who have no experience of EWI that wish to use it, MYSELF included, However I still cant see how and why this product would fail AFTER installation if it was installed correctly, therefore what is the warranty/gaurantee for or worth?
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plasterjfe
Private Member
I dont think a good system will fail if installed properly at least for a reasonable life expectancy but then a small matter of maintenance should suffice thereafter.
there are some exceptions - one famous product is having de-lamination issues right now and I hear that is down to their own components
there are some exceptions - one famous product is having de-lamination issues right now and I hear that is down to their own components
BrummieTrev
Member
That fully answers my question, the product is not fail proof and therefore can fail after installation, so yes the warranty /gaurantee is worth having to cover eventualities as described in the post above which cant be blamed on fitting error.
plasterjfe
Private Member
On a properly installed system I think the scale of what you consider to be a failure needs to be tought about, as in after a life expectancy/decades you may need to have some sensible maintenance for example lets say a window bead seal breaks down after 35 years of washing and weather, could lead to water ingress but nothing that cant be addressed by a homeowner etc. by the time such maintenance issues arise the warranty will have long lapsed.
hopefully the general upkeep will be taken care of before any problems can occur i assume most houses will be painted and tarted up after a couple of decades
goody
Private Member
I think EWI's biggest problem is damage. Even with render it's still vulnerable. Yes it's flexible and you can knock it but it punctures with a screw driver or Stanley blade etc.
I think for longevity reasons ewi slabs would benefit from a 9mm gtec render board on them. A thin coat on that would be hard and flexible. Of course it would cost more but as a premium option for ground floor etc it's something to think about.
I think for longevity reasons ewi slabs would benefit from a 9mm gtec render board on them. A thin coat on that would be hard and flexible. Of course it would cost more but as a premium option for ground floor etc it's something to think about.
its funny you mention that,
we did a school sports hall last year and clad the elevation near a basketball pitch to make it more agile with 12.5.mm gtec board on fixing 100mm eps, plenty of mechanical fixings, sand fine dpr on completion.
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