Labourers !

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Cfp

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Is it just me or does everyone expect a little more from there labourers these days !? It can't hurt to switch things around a little , mix , board , even trowel on a wall or two every now and again .. Personally I think it's the only where they can learn and progress within company :RpS_biggrin: ?
 
Yep gotta agree its hard enough to find one with a brain and if you can get them to to pick up a trowel, tape and knife its a bonus.
 
I think its a case if the plasterer lets the labourer get stuck in on somethings and show the labourer that hard work pays off then tehy will be a little more receptive :-)

Danny
 
My plastering skills have improved a lot since i started with my boss both on the trowel and prep work, keeps it interesting if i'm doing a bit of everything and the rewards are good to :-)
 
I disagree. This trend of giving them a trowel seems to have taken off in the last 10-15 years - to the detriment of the industry in my opinion. It is without doubt THE NUMBER ONE REASON why there are so many 'skimmers' around these days. You know - the ones everyone moans about for undercutting them? And all because some plasterers got too greedy (or lazy). I'm willing to bet that when you took these lads on as Labourers you didn't ask them if they'd like to train to become Plasterers, otherwise they'd have been Trainees or Apprentices. A Labourer is/should be just that.
 
Disagree bubbles, everyone should be allowed to learn, some will be good and carve a career some will be part time skimmers but that's life, you can only but try.
 
But if this trade can be learned by a labourer what does it say about the skill of the plastering trade?

One time we had apprentices but now that is gone for most. But for me why are labourers, labourers in the first place? And did these labourers apply for their jobs with the intention of becoming plasterers?

Lets give ourselves the pride we once had. Bring back the apprentice with day school and a proper earned NVQ, not the fake back handed ones what is going around. I got an NVQ for my labourer who has never plastered in his life! And he has no intention of becoming one but I have kept his NVQ (well destroyed it actually) just in case he wants to try his luck.
 
I think a labourer is a labourer and should never be taught to plaster as he will be off undermining -us all, and we have had to make sacrifices to become plasterers in the first place ! its like the government letting all these foreigners in, this all undermines us who are working tradesmen and brings prices down, we are a right load of idiots just letting all this happen !!.
 
johniosaif said:
Disagree bubbles, everyone should be allowed to learn, some will be good and carve a career some will be part time skimmers but that's life, you can only but try.
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Nowt wrong with learning, but the majority only want (or are taught) skimming and then BANG, suddenly there's another one running about with 'Plasterer' on the side of the van. Ask them to do some external work and you know the answer. A good Labourer is too good to lose to the trowel :RpS_thumbup:
 
gooner59 said:
I think a labourer is a labourer and should never be taught to plaster as he will be off undermining -us all, and we have had to make sacrifices to become plasterers in the first place ! its like the government letting all these foreigners in, this all undermines us who are working tradesmen and brings prices down, we are a right load of idiots just letting all this happen !!.
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I agree with that - sh!tting in our own nests for short-term gains :RpS_thumbdn:
 
Too pessimistic an out look, I have trained three guys, one is a spread / foreman in West Country another a builder in Fulham another concreting in oz, had no one in the last ten years who wanted to train but some of the labs went off plastering, I blame the idiots who hire them as much as them, as for blaming foreigners , I am one so can't say much, you say there is no work but when I advertise work no one is available, I know things are different in London , oddly we are insulated by the multi millionaire foreigners buying up the prime properties and this is also insulating a lot of the rest of Britain.
 
Wouldn't have a job with my boss if i didn't want to become a plasterer. Did my two years at college and have started at the bottom labouring steadily working my way up trying to become a good all round plasterer, which includes rendering
 
I have struggled to get my head around this since joining the site so basically are some saying that Labouring is the new apprenticeship ? Yes help with boarding but, then again I have had some that i would not give a sharp knife to never mind actually measure and cut a board. Put tape on yes, measure and cut a bead nooooooo. Give a trowel to and say put plasterer on a wall nooooooo. If they asked to be taugh i have to be honest and say i would have to really like and trust them. I get asked by loads of fellas if i would take their son on as an apprentice and they all get the same reply "If I needed an apprentice I would ask one of my own grown up sons first".
 
I dont see the point in taking anyone on who doesnt want to learn.
You wont get a hard worker if they arent interested.
Im a believer of treat them well they will put the effort hn for you.
 
Over the years I've had just two labourers that have progressed through to being on the tools.
They both worked hard getting all their normal labouring duties done and then gradually getting on the trowel as and when they had time.
One as Flynny suggested did stab me in the back and left me before he had learnt enough IMO, he got in with some other spreads and from what I've been told he didn't turn out the best.
The other guy, Gary, stuck it out to the stage where I took on another labourer and Gary was on the tools full time. We only parted ways because he went back to Ireland and we're still friends to this day.
How can anyone think it's wrong for guys like him to become a plasterer, he hasn't done a quick course, but worked hard and progressed at the speed that suited him to reach his final goal. No he hadn't done any fibrous work or laid a screed but he's still plastering (F&S) and rendering to a good standard.
 
I'm lucky if a labourer can even mix multi correctly, usually just there to mix gear and feed my hawk on big hits. I dont usually use one, but on big jobs it can make stuff a lot easier. Its usually better to have another spread with you on big hits, as if you need one on smaller jobs, your just getting lazy.
 
ive lost count the amount of labourers ive trained up in the rendering game, I often find there the best to learn through starting at the bottom, they appreciate what it takes. granted some are a waste of space and are only fit for loading out, but if they have the gumption to get on why not I guess. I started myself as a labourer for a bit before I did my apprenticeship, so I may be biast one way :RpS_wink:
 
My two spreads are jumped up labourers. They do my head in with their stupid intelligence! Don,t get me wrong, all my jobs are done to the highest spec and quality comes first but that is me not them. I need to keep my eyes on them all the time and for the few times I have a day off i lay them off for the time I am off. They simply would become their natural selves and prioritise on how fast they can get home. Like I was once told, you cannot expect to get 8 hours work to my standard in a 5 hour day!

My head during the day is thinking how can I maximise my day to get this job done on time and at the same time make tomorrow as easy as possible. My ex labourer spreads (all of them over the years) heads are thinking how easy can I do this task (even if it takes twice as long) and they will sabotage tomorrow if it means today can be easier and they can get off 5 minutes earlier. They have no idea what so ever about £££,s. I have created time targets with good bonuses but to get those bonuses they have to work smart and work out how on earth can they get this 5 day job done in at least 5 days? They don,t have a clue!

Example; Did a job last month. Spec was 6mm thin coat of Fassa Bortolio on eps. Beads supplied was 6mm beads. The starter track is 43mm and the boards are 40mm. So the front of the starter track is 1.5mm in front of the eps. Fit the supplied 6mm bead and you are faced with putting on 7.5mm of thin coat on a north facing wall. Well, not as easy as you may think on a 13c day! Long shot of it is we was rubbing up at 8.20pm! So last week we had the exact situation. At dinner time I came up with the brainy idea of fitting the bead and applying 2-3mm skim from the bead and feather it in so come the day we apply the thin coat we do not have this too thick problem again and we can get off at a reasonable hour. I forgot to add it was muggings here on last months job who took them home for tea and then went all the back and stayed till 8.20pm. Boarded out and fitted the bead to the starter track. Fitted the beads and had 1/2 a bag of mixed gear still in the tub. So expecting my brilliant idea to be put into use I noticed they was about to take the tub down the ladder to clean the tub out. I said use that gear on at least the base beads to prevent last months problem. Well that was when the **** hit the fan! I was reminded it was 4.30 and it is an hours drive home! (we usually on work local so this is an inconvenient job we didn,t want but the price is to good to turn down, for me anyway).

Well my brain is swelling with confusion and anger. The tub of gear is mixed, the tools are next to the tub and the tub is right next to the bead in question. I am talking about 2-3 minutes of work now to save 2 hours of hanging around some other day and on a job which I cannot conveniently drive them home and then drive back. They would have to stay and that would really stress them out. So who is right, me or them? So I asked them the question, 2 minutes now or two hours next week which do they prefer.

They actually preferred 2 hours next week!

So I went on a temper tantrum and did it myself. But in their opinion I was wrong! So yes I am against labourers becoming plasterers. Hence what I said, why are they labourers? Probably because of a lack of intelligence and their up bringing and background.
 
bubbles65 said:
I disagree. This trend of giving them a trowel seems to have taken off in the last 10-15 years - to the detriment of the industry in my opinion. It is without doubt THE NUMBER ONE REASON why there are so many 'skimmers' around these days. You know - the ones everyone moans about for undercutting them? And all because some plasterers got too greedy (or lazy). I'm willing to bet that when you took these lads on as Labourers you didn't ask them if they'd like to train to become Plasterers, otherwise they'd have been Trainees or Apprentices. A Labourer is/should be just that.
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how are they suppost to learn then?
 
jrplastering said:
i started as a labourer:RpS_confused:
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You might have. But if these lads where in business they would be called bodgit and scarper Ltd. I make a deal with my customers. I give them exactly what they want if they give me what I want £££££. I respect the customer giving me a living and I respect their property. These blokes have no experience of home ownership and never will. To them it is just a job and although they want the customers hard earned £££ they don,t respect them for it. They are more suited for the cheap for cash market and my way of thinking and moral values do their head in and their way of thinking and lack of any value does my head in.

Perhaps having a convent education didn,t help. Those nuns hammered out any ignorance and selfishness you might have inside you. They gave me conscience something a lot of my past lads lack.
 
@Rigsby i know the type you are talking about exactly and that is exactly why they are working for you cos they will never and could never run a business of their own they will always be employees because it is easy and if it all goes wrong for whoever is employing them they can just fall back on the social and if another job comes up they will go for that. There are good peep's out there it's just finding them cos generally anyone who has good ppep's treats them well to make sure they do not lose them.
 
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@Rigsby .... Maybe a tad harsh on your lads, but i understand your point. But I just think it simply comes down to it not being there responsibility. Your the boss, in there mind its 8 hours for x amount and that's it. They think your making all the money and there mind doesn't allow them to think any different.

There probs not rough, lazy or thick (or they wouldn't work for you), its just there not responsible for the job. Surely they would think different if it was there own job?
 
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Well said @raggles.
There are as many types of labourer as there are types of people.
I remember one lab I had that was a really intelligent guy, how did he use his intelligence? To avoid doing a good days graft at all costs. I've also had complete planks that have worked really hard and tried their best without a hope in hell of ever making it to being a spread of any standing. Plus I've had some that have the right mix of intelligence and willingness to get stuck in and get the job done, not that they all stick with it.
 
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Natural born skimmers !? Without sounding hypocritical everyone that's posted has a valid point , in my eyes we all have to start somewhere , I'm not against labourers learning how to spread but on flip side of that there's always that element of passing on your knowledge and lads f#%{*€g off and taking your business and stabbing you right in the back like flynny has said or stealing your thunder whilst you carry the t#%€s as rigsby pointed out .. It's alright if you have lads that can do a bit and appreciate the position you have put them in it's all well and good but it's a bummer when you mentor them and they get cosy with your clients and f#%k off and take a million pounds worth of work from you which has sadly happened to an associate of mine .. It's a fine line we are time served started as labourers and quickly progressed , we used to do loads of subby work for he guys that taught us our trade but never bit the hand that fed us we bought our vans paid our tax , insurance etc and got paid what we got paid . Never once did we say we can do the same job cheaper to anyone we worked for for to anyone else .. We learned quickly and built up our own client base in fact we still team up every now and again with the people that we worked with back in the day ! In fact one of them called us today having a moan about Slovakian teams working in Yorkshire hand applying monocouche for 3.50 a meter that's how cutthroat it is today .. So I see why some people see labourers a labourers and spreads as spreads suppose in these hard times it's all about protecting your future , but if we don't allow our labourers to progress will we be the last generation of plasterers ? It's like what came first the chicken or the egg ... :)
 
sorry i ment to say i started as a labourer about 10, 11 years ago and i work for the fella who taught me:RpS_thumbup: i did go on my own but only because he diddnt have enough work to keep me goin aswell but a couple of years to build his business up and im back with him earning myself and him a crust as much as i can
 
Rigsby you can't become a porn star without having s*x ! Thinking about we are all probably in wrong profession . I saw a program other night some geezer gets 500 for four hours getting jiggy with a proper sort and we are grafting our arses off for way less than what we should be getting . Know what I 'd rather be doing :)
 
Cfp said:
Natural born skimmers !? Without sounding hypocritical everyone that's posted has a valid point , in my eyes we all have to start somewhere , I'm not against labourers learning how to spread but on flip side of that there's always that element of passing on your knowledge and lads f#%{*€g off and taking your business and stabbing you right in the back like flynny has said or stealing your thunder whilst you carry the t#%€s as rigsby pointed out .. It's alright if you have lads that can do a bit and appreciate the position you have put them in it's all well and good but it's a bummer when you mentor them and they get cosy with your clients and f#%k off and take a million pounds worth of work from you which has sadly happened to an associate of mine .. It's a fine line we are time served started as labourers and quickly progressed , we used to do loads of subby work for he guys that taught us our trade but never bit the hand that fed us we bought our vans paid our tax , insurance etc and got paid what we got paid . Never once did we say we can do the same job cheaper to anyone we worked for for to anyone else .. We learned quickly and built up our own client base in fact we still team up every now and again with the people that we worked with back in the day ! In fact one of them called us today having a moan about Slovakian teams working in Yorkshire hand applying monocouche for 3.50 a meter that's how cutthroat it is today .. So I see why some people see labourers a labourers and spreads as spreads suppose in these hard times it's all about protecting your future , but if we don't allow our labourers to progress will we be the last generation of plasterers ? It's like what came first the chicken or the egg ... :)
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Where in Yorkshire are slovakians applying mono for3.50 a metre?
let us know and they can put 500 metres a week on for us, and I can retire a wealthy man.
in my experience they know the value and want somewhere near what britishlads want.

and just because you are a good plasterer doesn't mean you are good at running your own business, I've met many a lad that are spot on on the trowel but can't and don't have the wish to work for themselves and are happy to work for us, just to get the wage and not have the hassle.
 
Cfp said:
Rigsby you can't become a porn star without having s*x ! Thinking about we are all probably in wrong profession . I saw a program other night some geezer gets 500 for four hours getting jiggy with a proper sort and we are grafting our arses off for way less than what we should be getting . Know what I 'd rather be doing :)
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i get shafted on a regular Basis by developers but don't make that kind of money.
 
To be honest I'm not buying it I told him we were buying a g4 and he said don't waste your brass because those lads are doing that , like you if that's the case they can come do our job's too !
 
spunky said:
how are they suppost to learn then?
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They're not, that's my point..........they just need to keep on learning and improving at their own job - a bit like us.
My old gaffer used to tell them that it was a trade in itself, which I'm inclined to agree with.
 
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