Part time PA/Secretary what ever there called.

Jgreenplastering

Jgreenplastering

Private Member
I'm been thinking of this for a while now but don't actually know how it can work???

I'd prefer to be on the tools still but with the lads I have subbing for me I find I can't just do a day Graft any more!

My time needs to be spent viewing quoting, invoicing, fetching things to and from jobs and checking there all going ok and on time.

With the arrival of our new little girl I'm trying to keep my working hours to a normal 8-4 if I can so I still have family time and not just working flat out.

So how and what do some of you guys do with getting certain things done for you?
I've been thinking of hiring someone part time but then he/she won't be able to quote as domestics aren't set prices, then I think so I'd still need to visit and price it up so if I'm having to write that down for them I may as well do it.

That's the way I see it with all paperwork tbh.

If I have to write it down for them I may as stick to it myself surely or is there a way of doing it?

I have my accountant/book keeper so it's more the other stuff.

Any advice?

Cheers







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Serious I get worried reading j posts sometimes , tbh I can remember a year or so ago threads about taking lads on and vat registered etc as more work comes in , then more recently trying to find someone for internal work it's brilliant you have so much work but on the down side comes the stress and time of it all , I've seen 3 of my mates expand and take on more to earn more etc and can honestly say none have ended happily, one had 10 guys working for him for over 10 years but then it all caught up with him and he had a mental breakdown, the other is still at it banging away with 5 gangs working away and never at home ( but he is loaded, well he is if everyone paid up) and the 3rd worked that hard to stay in control he never saw his kids and split with the mrs in the end because she was sick of it all and she started shagging someone else

It's a very fine line in life , money , work and happiness
 
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Vincey said:
Serious I get worried reading j posts sometimes , tbh I can remember a year or so ago threads about taking lads on and vat registered etc as more work comes in , then more recently trying to find someone for internal work it's brilliant you have so much work but on the down side comes the stress and time of it all , I've seen 3 of my mates expand and take on more to earn more etc and can honestly say none have ended happily, one had 10 guys working for him for over 10 years but then it all caught up with him and he had a mental breakdown, the other is still at it banging away with 5 gangs working away and never at home ( but he is loaded, well he is if everyone paid up) and the 3rd worked that hard to stay in control he never saw his kids and split with the mrs in the end because she was sick of it all and started shagging someone else

It's a very fine line in life , money , work and happiness
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I wouldn't say I'm looking to expand any more than I have mate just looking to see how I can stay on the tools a bit more.
I love working but I can't do any proper days work when I'm having to do everything else so just trying to work out how to manage it better.

Im just looking to be better from a business head perspective. I never imagined I'd get to how I am and was never prepared for it so it's been a massive lesson every day and I'm looking to make things a little easier now the little one is here.

It will never be 'easy' but one thing I do love is learning from people with experience and knowledge.





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Jgreenplastering said:
I wouldn't say I'm looking to expand any more than I have mate just looking to see how I can stay on the tools a bit more.
I love working but I can't do any proper days work when I'm having to do everything else so just trying to work out how to manage it better.

Im just looking to be better from a business head perspective. I never imagined I'd get to how I am and was never prepared for it so it's been a massive lesson every day and I'm looking to make things a little easier now the little one is here.

It will never be 'easy' but one thing I do love is learning from people with experience and knowledge.
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I work in a similar way, and to achieve that I try to confine the 'other stuff' to a day or days a week. Maybe Monday do the running round and sorting Tue/Wed/Thur working, Friday back to sorting. It doesn't always work out that way, and sometimes I end up running round on a Saturday to the unit or whatever.

The other thing is, get your materials list sorted earlier and get it delivered. It works out much cheaper to have it dropped in a hit than it does running around each day collecting bits and bobs.

Office/admin wise, I just gather everything up and send it to the accountant.

Quoting, well there you're kind of fcuked as you can only do that when the customer is available. On domestics that's basically evenings and weekends.
 
its a fine balance,
I'm 4 days on tools, one day on road, Saturday / evenings I do estimates at my desk. my hours are ridiculous in summer but that's the game, I don't have kids yet but due a girl next month so it may change.
my accountants office does my payroll, cis returns etc everything apart from my quarter vat returns, and as well as my self assessment, my unit paper work even for my buy to let house.
ive started from the bottom on my todd with an escort van 15 years ago now I employ quite a few and completed over 10,000 metres of render last year,my outgoings are frightening. Ive always just picked it up as ive gone along and learnt how to balance my time. everyone deals with stress different, I take it all in my stride but that's just how I am and always have been.
 
imago said:
I work in a similar way, and to achieve that I try to confine the 'other stuff' to a day or days a week. Maybe Monday do the running round and sorting Tue/Wed/Thur working, Friday back to sorting. It doesn't always work out that way, and sometimes I end up running round on a Saturday to the unit or whatever.

The other thing is, get your materials list sorted earlier and get it delivered. It works out much cheaper to have it dropped in a hit than it does running around each day collecting bits and bobs.

Office/admin wise, I just gather everything up and send it to the accountant.

Quoting, well there you're kind of fcuked as you can only do that when the customer is available. On domestics that's basically evenings and weekends.
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That's how I've tried to work it but being on domestics it just doesn't always work.
People expect you to be able to view the job on evenings or when they want....now I've just had my daughter I'm trying to be home by 5 to spend it with her.

I usually do 2 evenings a week paperwork wise in my office at home, that's when I send all my quotes etc.
Accountants do all things related to them except CIS as I have to send them the info I may as well do it but that's once a month.

I'd say the biggest struggle is finding the time to get back to the phone calls and emails I get.
I used to be s**t hot on that, now I'd say I don't return around 50% of enquiries.....this is down to either not having a clue what some are saying, deciding I don't like the sound of them/the job, hearing 'asap' in the message or just leaving it so long that when I take it down on the pad I think it's been to long don't bother.
Hate the way I think like this as I used to get back to everyone and feel a bit unprofessional!

I used to know where I'd be in 8-10 weeks time and would have it down to a tee now I work a week in front and just can't commit to specific dates since the jobs have got bigger and using more men.

Don't really know if I'm doing it rightly or wrongly that's the thing. Just assume I'm doing ok without having a mentor or someone to listen to.




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owls said:
its a fine balance,
I'm 4 days on tools, one day on road, Saturday / evenings I do estimates at my desk. my hours are ridiculous in summer but that's the game, I don't have kids yet but due a girl next month so it may change.
my accountants office does my payroll, cis returns etc everything apart from my quarter vat returns, and as well as my self assessment, my unit paper work even for my buy to let house.
ive started from the bottom on my todd with an escort van 15 years ago now I employ quite a few and completed over 10,000 metres of render last year,my outgoings are frightening. Ive always just picked it up as ive gone along and learnt how to balance my time. everyone deals with stress different, I take it all in my stride but that's just how I am and always have been.
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We had our little girl 5 weeks ago and since then I just come home and lie down with her on me and think the paperwork can wait but it's just made things worse tbh!

I don't want to regret not spending time with her though even if she's at the age of doing nothing!

I do struggle to grasp things, I think to myself how I could sustain being a big domestic outfit as I would eventually be way more than the one man bands or the chancers, but having said that I thought vat would damage me but since I registered I've been better off, I don't tend to get the small bedrooms any more and I'm winning more and more bigger jobs which keeps us going but it's just knowing if I'm going about it the right way or if there's more to it to make use of things in a better way.


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Unfortunately, 'regular' hours and being home before 17:00 with no quoting to do, means you need a job on the cards or sub-contract on sites. Self-employed on domestics won't allow you to do that I'm afraid.

Might be time for a think and prioritise what you want from life and business. I'd suggest you'll either need to expand much more and take on contract/site work, or reduce the number you have working for you and stick to domestics.
 
All I can say is they grow up pretty darn quick, you will find balance, you either fob off jobs or call it an early day, being on domestic full time won't always equal to finish at 4. I would never go into a partnership with someone, rarely works that, that's my opinion anyway.
You can get a virtual PA who answers phone calls if you get a fair few. Or you can get your Mrs to write up quotes and invoices in her downtime.
 
zombie said:
@Jgreenplastering

Consider getting a business partner & then split quoting & all other stresses.

Cant really understand how you would need so many lads for domestic works?
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I'd never get a business partner unless I was buying into someone's business tbh.

Every partnership i know has only gone the route of one accusing the other of something.

I've got an internal team that my sub contract works for small-medium loft/building companies.

I've got an outside team that are on my machine and spray mono for 8months of the year. This is 80% private and 20% subcontract works.

I've got 2 labourers that go anywhere when needed.

There all subbies but with me everyday every week.

Some are ok and some are great.

Then I've got myself, I do all the building works.
I project manage and do a good bit of what I feel I can do then I have my subbies I use on a regular basis to do the plumbing, electrics, brickie, chippie when needed.

I didn't expect it to grow to this tbh, was happy just on my own but I do get enjoyment out of seeing the jobs completed and knowing I've left someone happy with what we've done. I always wanted to make something of myself to prove everyone wrong I had a lot of people who thought I'd be a dickhead all my life, I spent the best part of 7 years working non stop 6-7 day weeks, my missus has been amazing, I look back and think how she never left. Now we have a family and I'm doing well it's a case of working out how to make things run smoothly and try to be more clever about it.

As @imago says....work clever not hard. That's something that's stuck with me off the forum and I always try to think that way when I can!




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Jgreenplastering said:
Now we have a family and I'm doing well it's a case of working out how to make things run smoothly and try to be more clever about it.
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I think the fist thing to do is work out what you want from your life currently. Then how much money you'll need to get it, and what's the best way to earn that amount within the time you have available.

Forget the trade specifics for now. A self employed sole trader working five days a week with a bit of paperwork in the evenings and weekends should be looking at forty to fifty thousand a year. To do that you'd need to have £160 a day for £40k or £200 a day for £50k. (250 working days = 365 minus weekends and minus another 10 days holiday). Obviously you have to add on a figure for ALL of your business overheads and everyone's are different.

So I would suggest that if you're not earning a good chunk more than that with people working/subbing for you then you need to work out why and either pay less, charge more, or take on work that allows you to go solo.
 
imago said:
I think the fist thing to do is work out what you want from your life currently. Then how much money you'll need to get it, and what's the best way to earn that amount within the time you have available.

Forget the trade specifics for now. A self employed sole trader working five days a week with a bit of paperwork in the evenings and weekends should be looking at forty to fifty thousand a year. To do that you'd need to have £160 a day for £40k or £200 a day for £50k. (250 working days = 365 minus weekends and minus another 10 days holiday). Obviously you have to add on a figure for ALL of your business overheads and everyone's are different.

So I would suggest that if you're not earning a good chunk more than that with people working/subbing for you then you need to work out why and either pay less, charge more, or take on work that allows you to go solo.
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The money is one thing I can't grumble about tbh. Since I started on my own it's allowed me to do a lot of things I could never dream of with a normal 9-5 job.
That's the main reason I've never stopped myself growing as Its always 'rewarded' us with holidays etc and generally never having to worry about things financially.

It's only since my daughter arrived 5 weeks ago have I started to look at things differently and think how to do things differently to maximise my family time.
My missus must of felt so neglected while I was busy building the business, tbh I have her to thank for a massive chunk of what I've achieved as without her I'd probably be either running from site to site job to job chasing wages each week to spend on the weekend or I'd be a bum on benefits scrounging off the state!



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Danny said:
@owls I reckon will also have a good insight into this :D
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Rich has always given good solid advice when I've asked many a questions on the forum mate. His inputs been very valuable to me at times.

For all the crap and abuse that happens on this forum there is a lot of things I've took off here from quite a few people over the years which has either helped me make decisions or made be better at my job.

I suppose it's like anything though, the bad will always be told louder than the good most of the time.

I'd love to have a day with some of the guys on here just asking them questions on how they run/do things to take it home and put it into my business.


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Have you got a couple or even one good lad who works for you mate?

Who actually knows the game, pricing structure etc?

Cant you offload a couple of viewings and estmates on him?

My old boss used to do that with me, ask me if I wanted to look at a job for him, tell him how many days it will take me with a labourer then he will stick his extra money on then give me a little better money for doing it, no one losing out works getting done
 
roryston said:
Have you got a couple or even one good lad who works for you mate?

Who actually knows the game, pricing structure etc?

Cant you offload a couple of viewings and estmates on him?

My old boss used to do that with me, ask me if I wanted to look at a job for him, tell him how many days it will take me with a labourer then he will stick his extra money on then give me a little better money for doing it, no one losing out works getting done
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If it worked so well why is he your old boss mate?

All my lads are good, 2 of them are great. A couple just have the mentality of go to work get my wages which actually stops them progressing.
The reason there all with me aswell is because they don't want the aggro you get with running the business. There happy to come to work and go home.
I don't begrudge them for that either as some people want it some dont.





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Jgreenplastering said:
If it worked so well why is he your old boss mate?

All my lads are good, 2 of them are great. A couple just have the mentality of go to work get my wages which actually stops them progressing.
The reason there all with me aswell is because they don't want the aggro you get with running the business. There happy to come to work and go home.
I don't begrudge them for that either as some people want it some dont.





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Only reason I left mate was he went quiet September last year.

Long story short he got left a lot of money from the passing of his dad and took the pot off the boil so wasn't looking at as much work as he should of been, he had me and 3 other lads going and he was putting all of us on a small job just to keep us all in work, I had my own stuff coming in and felt bad taking money off him for litterally doing nothing so said to him ill see myself out until January then see what happens. January came and he was still quiet so I carried on chasing my own work and that was that.


It was just a idea mate, and it can be risky if you haven't got 100% trust in the person who's looking at it on behalf of you,

I'm no where near as well established as you but I can completely understand where your coming from, I have barely spent any time with my 6 year old over the years and my baby who is now nearly 5 months old because I'm constantly chasing everything, either way mate I hope you find something that works for you in both cases
 
to employ people on domestics is a nightmare, the customer wants the personal touch from their contractor and a lot are just 1 day jobs. my brother and myself employed 10 on domestics ok in a boom but all of a sudden the work will dry up.

the most successful plastering contractors that i know of employ a QS. and only take on site work. they do all of the quotations and payments. the large contractors also have contract managers. one local contractor tells me that the maximum workload to a contracts manager is a workforce of 50. they work from an office not their home so when they go home they leave the business behind.
 
Get a good admin clerk part time. They are generally female, so I'll say "pay her well".... developed a system of paperwork/filing blah, blah. Let her run a diary and stuff for you so can price jobs, and you know where you are. Let her do the phone chasing s**t so you can concentrate on business. Delegate, it's good for the soul.
 
malc said:
to employ people on domestics is a nightmare, the customer wants the personal touch from their contractor and a lot are just 1 day jobs. my brother and myself employed 10 on domestics ok in a boom but all of a sudden the work will dry up.

That's why I was reluctant at first to do it, I thought that touch would disappear.....this may be the very reason I'm always 100mph though as I always still try to provide that personal 'touch' without always carrying out the work.
I try to be on every job at some point throughout its duration to make it seem I'm still providing that touch.
Clients will know when I'm quoting that I'm mostly likely not going to be doing it unless I expressly tell them.
I'd say our average job size now isn't a 1 day job, more like a week minimum with the amount of render projects we get.

I started my business at 19 when the recession hit in 2008, my second boss told me to prepare to look for work and I just went out on my own and have never looked back. I know it will be hard to sustain this amount of workload for a continued length of time but I'm making hay while the sun shines as some will say.



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I can't believe that after all these people have taken there cut there's still decent profit left in jobs?

I bet just you and another spread being selective with jobs would earn better than all the running around?
 
zombie said:
I can't believe that after all these people have taken there cut there's still decent profit left in jobs?

I bet just you and another spread being selective with jobs would earn better than all the running around?
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I deal either direct with clients so It's my price then I pay my lads.
Or the sub contract work we deal with the builder so it's them then us.
It's domestic so there's not 4,5 or 6 firms taking there slice.

Day work for builders I'll make a small bit on each man. It's not much but its regular and when I've got 6+ lads it all adds up.

As said before the money isn't the issue I'm just asking for advice from people with experience to see if there's a better way of using my time or changing things to make me more efficient.
I expected to be the on the tools all my working life and not managing a team.


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Just go off the tools completely, that's what most who's on them all the time want. You seem to have the opportunity so I'd take it. Use your spare time to get more jobs in and possibly more staff
 
Jgreenplastering said:
As said before the money isn't the issue I'm just asking for advice from people with experience to see if there's a better way of using my time or changing things to make me more efficient.
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I think that's the bit that is causing you to rethink, and trips a fair few up (me included) when they go from being a tradesman to running a business.

The sole purpose for a business is to make money. Any improvements in efficiency should have one single purpose, to make more money.

If what you want to do, which it sounds like from your posts, is make a good living and have time to enjoy it then you need to forget running a business and employing people. Focus instead on how you as an individual can earn a good whack in exchange for as few hours as possible. As I mentioned in a post before, you should be able to earn forty to fifty grand a year before tax and after expenses. If you can reach that target by working smart, being shrewd and making the most of the skill you sell then you're well in. If you want to make more than that then you need to expand, but only do so in ways that make the gain worth the work/hassle involved.
 
@Jgreenplastering

Sounds like your in a very fortunate position then as in my region south Yorkshire you couldn't possibly make enough additional money on each man per day etc for it to be viable as people just won't pay it.

Its a case of sole traders just working for wages around our way not even working for wages plus profit.

From what I'm digesting from your posts, why don't you have a go at aiming to cover your wages then totally off the tools and treat the pricing arranging materials etc as your main job/focus.

If your not covering your wages by having both a team of internal & external spreads with your machine etc then what's the point?

In the past I used to have to much work and used to have a couple if lads with me but when u sat and worked it out all I was doing really was running around to just pay the blokes wages and for me just didn't really stack up.

Keep us all posted be interesting to see how it works out for you pal.

Good luck fela
 
Jgreenplastering said:
Rich has always given good solid advice when I've asked many a questions on the forum mate. His inputs been very valuable to me at times.

For all the crap and abuse that happens on this forum there is a lot of things I've took off here from quite a few people over the years which has either helped me make decisions or made be better at my job.

I suppose it's like anything though, the bad will always be told louder than the good most of the time.

I'd love to have a day with some of the guys on here just asking them questions on how they run/do things to take it home and put it into my business.


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Click to expand...
Plenty of good eggs on here.
 
That's the reason I've been able to expand as I've reasonably low overheads competing against people with office staff, contracts manager, pa's etc.
I've just won a decent contract as a principal contractor with a housing association, re rendering some of there housing stock. I put a good price in to cover me and I subsequently found out I was still 30% less than another outfit that priced it, the amount of money some outfits cream off before they pay subbies is a lot in some cases.
It's layers of profit, principal contractor=rendering contractor= sub contractor, each layer taking there cut, and that's before they start adding wedges on for scaffolding, skips, then on other trades.
 
zombie said:
@Jgreenplastering

Sounds like your in a very fortunate position then as in my region south Yorkshire you couldn't possibly make enough additional money on each man per day etc for it to be viable as people just won't pay it.

Its a case of sole traders just working for wages around our way not even working for wages plus profit.

From what I'm digesting from your posts, why don't you have a go at aiming to cover your wages then totally off the tools and treat the pricing arranging materials etc as your main job/focus.

If your not covering your wages by having both a team of internal & external spreads with your machine etc then what's the point?

In the past I used to have to much work and used to have a couple if lads with me but when u sat and worked it out all I was doing really was running around to just pay the blokes wages and for me just didn't really stack up.

Keep us all posted be interesting to see how it works out for you pal.

Good luck fela
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Cheers mate.

I could come off the tools completely but then I feel I would lose the personal touch that's taken me so long to get where I am and why I feel people use me.
I can't help but be on all my jobs at some point.
It's a case of not fully letting go and always saying to my lads why didn't you do it this way why did you do that.
It's not necessarily wrong but I'm paranoid if something's wrong or not perfect.

I think trying to lose one of the days in the week to paperwork/visits etc will help.

It's only been the last few weeks I've been struggling but then I was off with my little girl, one of the lads was off for 10 days in Mexico and then another's just had his baby aswell so that's probably added to the stress at the minute. Being my best lads and the ones I can confidently leave on a job and get it sorted without issues has put the pressure on me to be to many places.
Everyone's back in next week so it should get easier again.

I only had a week off with the baby, suppose it's just part and parcel of having a team to look after and sort out.


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