ruling off

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harvey2012

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i'm trying to learn how to render on my own and finding everything about it difficult even small jobs,what am i doing wrong can someone tell me how to rule off properly my works a disaster, am i ruling off too soon or too late, should i use a screed my trowel skills are good but when it comes to using a feather edge i have real problems same with undercoat plasters i don't know whether it's my tool skills or whether i need to know more about theory in general please can someone help me out.
 
harvey2012 said:
i'm trying to learn how to render on my own and finding everything about it difficult even small jobs,what am i doing wrong can someone tell me how to rule off properly my works a disaster, am i ruling off too soon or too late, should i use a screed my trowel skills are good but when it comes to using a feather edge i have real problems same with undercoat plasters i don't know whether it's my tool skills or whether i need to know more about theory in general please can someone help me out.
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perhaps the material is too soft, google for some youtube videos, its hard to say without actually seeing you work,,Practice and patience
 
watched the vids for hours looks easy isn't ive tried hitting it when its soft it just rolls and sags leave it too long it tears. and also how do you cover a large area anything you can tell me would be very much appreciated
 
Like John said good ruling takes lots of practice, the angle you are holding your edge might be wrong or incorrect amount of pressure. keep practicing, it will just feel right when you hit it bang on. watch all the videos and remember that certain materials do rule differently. personally I use a feather edge and keep it as flat to the wall as poss. I always use silver sand and lime where possible when rendering and find that it rules lovely
 
harvey2012 said:
i'm trying to learn how to render on my own and finding everything about it difficult even small jobs,what am i doing wrong can someone tell me how to rule off properly my works a disaster, am i ruling off too soon or too late, should i use a screed my trowel skills are good but when it comes to using a feather edge i have real problems same with undercoat plasters i don't know whether it's my tool skills or whether i need to know more about theory in general please can someone help me out.
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Where are you based Harvey ? someone on he might be able to help ,be honest i think if you watched once how it was done ,your be away ,i,m in Kent if that helps ,best of luck ,and don,t get put off
 
there are a couple of really knowledgeable blokes on here who always seem keen to help and advise, Im sure they can offer some sound advice. maybe its been covered already, not sure
 
your very kind thanks for the offers of help but i'm in sheffield to be honest i rarely get any rendering jobs but i hate not being able to do things i feel a real fraud even though my internal plastering is pretty good i came into plastering late in life and have done my best to give people a good product but when you're older it's difficult to get people to train you i have been to college for two years but again working with sand/lime on relatively flat breeze block walls hasn't helped could you just walk me through a typical brick gable from start to finish that would be great.
 
harvey2012 said:
your very kind thanks for the offers of help but i'm in sheffield to be honest i rarely get any rendering jobs but i hate not being able to do things i feel a real fraud even though my internal plastering is pretty good i came into plastering late in life and have done my best to give people a good product but when you're older it's difficult to get people to train you i have been to college for two years but again working with sand/lime on relatively flat breeze block walls hasn't helped could you just walk me through a typical brick gable from start to finish that would be great.
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It is something you have to see and do mate ,someone might come up in your area ,wait about for a bit
 
harvey2012 said:
your very kind thanks for the offers of help but i'm in sheffield to be honest i rarely get any rendering jobs but i hate not being able to do things i feel a real fraud even though my internal plastering is pretty good i came into plastering late in life and have done my best to give people a good product but when you're older it's difficult to get people to train you i have been to college for two years but again working with sand/lime on relatively flat breeze block walls hasn't helped could you just walk me through a typical brick gable from start to finish that would be great.
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Harvey this is my honest opinion and not being sh1tty with you but, if you haven't got the knack of ruling of S&C and other internal backing coats then you sure as hell won't be making a decent job of ruling off a gable wall. It's almost like saying "I haven't really mastered ruling off a standard 2.4mx4.5m wall but could you tell me how to make a good job of ruling off a stairwall", it just ain't going to happen.
Don't run before you can walk.
 
i get it mate, i'm on my own thats the gist of it practice and more practice thanks for your honest advice. but can i say that disappointingly so many some people act as though they were born with all the plastering knowledge in the world and no one else has the right to learn or ask i don't understand i've always helped anyone who's come to me over the years and asked for help .
 
I had the same problem as an apprentice ruling off browning. I just could not get the hang of it for quite a long time. For me it was screeds (and that was not easy) virtually set and then fill in between the screed and rule off the hardish screeds. Eventually it came to me but it took a lot of practice. Even my own men have not got it down to a tee like me so I usually do the ruling off.

Sand and cement is not that easy to rule off. Too far gone and it's impossible, to soft and it could wave. Try something like Weber ocr thats nice and creamy.

Unfortunately I do live in Sheffield but there will not be room on our scaffold for a 3rd or 4th man and my lads do not like local competition. If you and me got on then they know I have a replacement waiting in the wings.

Now should one of them get the bullet I will let you know.
 
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Because its basic plastering skills, dont rule it if you dont know how just lay it on neat free hand
 
its all about getting a 'feel' for the wall, by that i mean guaging what thickness your are putting the material on and learning your setting times of what ever gear you are using, youll get to the stage of rulling walls with a rule, bob on plumb and flat.
but this comes with practice and experience.
 
harvey2012 said:
i get it mate, i'm on my own thats the gist of it practice and more practice thanks for your honest advice. but can i say that disappointingly so many some people act as though they were born with all the plastering knowledge in the world and no one else has the right to learn or ask i don't understand i've always helped anyone who's come to me over the years and asked for help .
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This the problem Harvey, you go to the trouble of going to college for two years and they didn't even teach you how to rule off, as Spunky says a basic skill of the trade. If you feel comfortable carrying on working on peoples houses without the needed skills then try to stick to more straight forward work until you have mastered ruling off before you try tackling things such as gable walls.
As a guide I'd disagree with what some have said and would not hold my featheredge anything like flat to the wall while getting it straight, as even the more rigid rules will flex at those angles when pressed even lightly onto S&C. So use the rule at a more acute angle until you have the wall straight and then give it a final light pass with the rule flatter to the wall just to close the surface in nicely ready for floating.
Hope that helps.
Now where's my tee-shirt!
 
It really is catch22 for you, you cant take on the big metres yet but you wont learn til you do so. keep at it bud, listen to the advice of the boys on here and keep fishing. You have already had a couple of offers of help, just bad luck that none are in your area. lot of members on here and most aren't on tonight, so keep active, you never know your luck. I was a competent plasterer for a couple of years before my ruling really came up to standard. a couple of big jobs and you will get it right enough.
 
Olican said:
It really is catch22 for you, you cant take on the big metres yet but you wont learn til you do so. keep at it bud, listen to the advice of the boys on here and keep fishing. You have already had a couple of offers of help, just bad luck that none are in your area. lot of members on here and most aren't on tonight, so keep active, you never know your luck. I was a competent plasterer for a couple of years before my ruling really came up to standard. a couple of big jobs and you will get it right enough.
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Sorry mate but a bit of a contradiction don't you think.
 
You're gonna HAVE TO jump on with an experienced plasterer harvey. There's no way you can learn by writing/talking about it or watching youtube, as Owls (I think) said you need to 'feel' the gear :RpS_thumbup:
 
essexandy said:
This the problem Harvey, you go to the trouble of going to college for two years and they didn't even teach you how to rule off, as Spunky says a basic skill of the trade. If you feel comfortable carrying on working on peoples houses without the needed skills then try to stick to more straight forward work until you have mastered ruling off before you try tackling things such as gable walls.
As a guide I'd disagree with what some have said and would not hold my featheredge anything like flat to the wall while getting it straight, as even the more rigid rules will flex at those angles when pressed even lightly onto S&C. So use the rule at a more acute angle until you have the wall straight and then give it a final light pass with the rule flatter to the wall just to close the surface in nicely ready for floating.
Hope that helps.
Now where's my tee-shirt!
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thats correct you rule off then you rule in
 
Hard to get the hang off wen it cums to backing plaster a lay the gear on then throw a little water on stick the rule in the corner move it up and down to get a tight angle then procede to rule then fill in the hollows and rule agen after that wen it hardens a little a use a darby to flaten it in then devil float it dunno if any one else does it this way but leave undercoats perfect for skimming
 
Hi Harvey, you are quite welcome to come with me and my lads for a day or two. We do a lot of ruling, due to be behind a machine. There's some good advice on here by some top spreads, but if you fancy it send me a message. I'm in chesterfield. But work all over.
 
harvey

cheers steveo i'd love to take you up on your offer it's very kind of you, you can reach me on 07870100573 or i can ring you my names pat by the way once again thanks
 
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