Segregation of the industry

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When I was learning we did float and set ,skim, dab , tack s&c render , coving , patching some special white renders with fibre glass in did loads of that on Warwick uni and on a couple prisons internally bull nosing everything in sight now all I seem to get is fookin artex to sort !Young kids won't learn most of it as its board and skim everywhere most have never seen a bag of hardwall done expansion joints or anything like it Shame but that's the way it's gone the boards will come ready finished soon you will just have to fill the screw heads!
 
jeanclaudevangyproc said:
When I was learning we did float and set ,skim, dab , tack s&c render , coving , patching some special white renders with fibre glass in did loads of that on Warwick uni and on a couple prisons internally bull nosing everything in sight now all I seem to get is fookin artex to sort !Young kids won't learn most of it as its board and skim everywhere most have never seen a bag of hardwall done expansion joints or anything like it Shame but that's the way it's gone the boards will come ready finished soon you will just have to fill the screw heads!
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here in ireland u cant be a plasterer if u only skim all the houses here are s and c inside and out .so thers no way round it u have to be able to do it all
 
Irish plasterers have always been **** hot... float and set is a skill set that modern day plasterers/skimmers can't or won't do and that is a shame... I can do it but am not very fast at it.... on domestic work I rarely came across a job that needed floating.... but when I did I loved it :-)
 
Right this is where I get Confused. Take scott for example. Keeping your opinion to yourself Craig, yes he skims boards day in day out BUT says he can render. Float etc but makes good enough money skimming. Is he still a plasterer? In my eyes yes.
 
beddy said:
Right this is where I get Confused. Take scott for example. Keeping your opinion to yourself Craig, yes he skims boards day in day out BUT says he can render. Float etc but makes good enough money skimming. Is he still a plasterer? In my eyes yes.
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cant answer, as I am respecting your request..lol...
 
Ok say its not scott. Someone else. If they only skim but CAN render float cove etc. What are they.
 
I went to a job one time wer they thought a plasterer was just sum1 that taped and filled the slabs, most big jobs now is all been boarded and taped! Shame that, soon be plastering a thing of the past :(
 
beddy said:
Ok say its not scott. Someone else. If they only skim but CAN render float cove etc. What are they.
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I think people say they can do this and that, but in reality stick in their comfort zone... and i think people who did a proper college course have the most rounded skills, as they had to learn everything.. that was a while back, not nowadys from what I see... people who just skim seem to be untrained, just pick it up from their dad or whoever employs them.. I know loads of skimmers who cant float/render etc properly, they say they can, but are not that good at it...
 
I can render, float set skim... never done any fibrous work... and my venetian skills are ver limited... what am I happy doing? Going for a beer!!!
 
Rigsby said:
Seen some really good rendering in Eire. So dot and dab never took off?
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It did take off. But the last few houses I've plastered have been float and set. Its back to the old way thanks fuk. Just the external walls with thermal boards.
 
does it really matter what you can and cant do, as long as what your doing now your doing well.
I did my apprenticeship in plastering, but havnt done any plastering for years.
 
beddy said:
Right this is where I get Confused. Take scott for example. Keeping your opinion to yourself Craig, yes he skims boards day in day out BUT says he can render. Float etc but makes good enough money skimming. Is he still a plasterer? In my eyes yes.
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I can and I am.
 
If someone who only skims, isn't a plasterer. Regardless of how good he is. Does that mean that Ronaldo and Messi can't be called footballers, only attacking players, as they never go in goal? No one doubts their skill. But they don't do everything, so therefore aren't footballers?
 
aspotofbother said:
If someone who only skims, isn't a plasterer. Regardless of how good he is. Does that mean that Ronaldo and Messi can't be called footballers, only attacking players, as they never go in goal? No one doubts their skill. But they don't do everything, so therefore aren't footballers?
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thats why they dont earn what a good spread can earn. lol
 
People shouldn't confuse, 'dont do something very often' with not being able to to do it in the first place.
I have no control whatsoever over the 'spec' which is chosen, so if a developer wants me to do 50 units of dab and skim on a decent price youd have to be a bit simple to turn it down cause being a proper plasterer id rather float them instead.
pride and ego are all well and good but they pay s**t rates.
 
I still work a master plasterer and the wealth of knowledge is unbelievable! He was one of the last lot I think who did the full old school apprenticeship. All over plasterer I've work were either taught onsite for years or had shorter apprenticeship, some good others not so? But all the ones who did proper apprenticeships all worked for plastering firms? I think that's the problem now? And the firms I know of don't seem to care if your that good and don't pay decent rates anyway even if u was any good? I did 2 and half days a week for two years at college and was told from day one we wouldn't leave plasterers, we'd just have basic knowledge and use of tools, we needed to get out and work with plasterers to be one or get an apprenticeship but I couldn't find one? But college did teach all the aspects of plastering and still should then you make a choice what part you prefer?
 
Times and requirements change, and no one is going to pay to train someone to a high level of skill in a particular aspect of a trade if it has little/lower demand. Think of all the trades that were once huge but are now minority craft skills. Coopers, wheelwrights, thatchers etc. Then there are trades that have different requirements now to years ago, bricklaying, stonemasons, electricians, plumbers, carpenters and plasterers.

"The only constant is change."
 
As for the debate about college trained versus on the job/site training, it's probably worth remembering that when trades were at their peak in terms of skill and quality output none of the people were college trained. If you look at brickwork, moulded plaster or carpentry I would suggest that they were at their best in Georgian or Victorian buildings. As there weren't any colleges until after the war all of those skilled tradesmen were trained by the bloke they worked with, not sat in a class with 20 others.

The traditional approach to training, which produced the highest skill levels, was on a site. The 'modern' class based training was introduced to churn more out in a shorter time to a uniform standard.
 
beddy said:
Right this is where I get Confused. Take scott for example. Keeping your opinion to yourself Craig, yes he skims boards day in day out BUT says he can render. Float etc but makes good enough money skimming. Is he still a plasterer? In my eyes yes.
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Yep agree with that....
 
imago said:
As for the debate about college trained versus on the job/site training, it's probably worth remembering that when trades were at their peak in terms of skill and quality output none of the people were college trained. If you look at brickwork, moulded plaster or carpentry I would suggest that they were at their best in Georgian or Victorian buildings. As there weren't any colleges until after the war all of those skilled tradesmen were trained by the bloke they worked with, not sat in a class with 20 others.

The traditional approach to training, which produced the highest skill levels, was on a site. The 'modern' class based training was introduced to churn more out in a shorter time to a uniform standard.
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I've been to college Imago and in my experience their s**t, they've cottoned on to the fact the can teach very little on the pracitcal side, so they save money on materials all the while claiming £3500 per student in funding, therefore they produce people that can only do so much.

I would give my right nut to get on with an old school spread who can teach me everything I need to know to be a top plasterer.
 
On the positive side for colleges...
I went to one for two years (not full time) albeit 25 years ago and I've presumed courses have changed some what, but they did teach me a lot on the science side of things, not only what happens but why, and therefore a better understanding of certain situations.
For actually producing work though you have to be on site.
I started when I was 14 just working weekends until I left school, and I was at a guess around 21 before I could call myself fully fledged and be able to go and earn a full wage on the lump.
 
I'm not knocking college training at all (I've been myself), just pointing out that it's not the only way that people can become highly skilled in their trade.

There seems to be a good deal of insecurity within the trades and on forums that is expressed with either "the old ways are the best" or "you're not a proper [insert trade] unless you served and apprenticeship and went to college". Neither of which are totally accurate or the only way.

You're either good at your job or your not. If you are the way you learn is as irrelevant IMNSHO.
 
when i look back at the apprentices that we taught, 3 of them have gone on to earn a very good living.
one is hopeless, everything is near enough.
another a quick learner, but not interested, went off to become a tattooist,
the other one has done his head in with drugs now unemployed.
 
Isn't it just more efficient to do one aspect of each trade ... Easier to train ... Easier to control output ... Make more money or be more competitive skimmers skim renderers render tackers board screeders screed no problem. At one time plumbers used to flash roofs now it's a thing of the past.
 
I have seen the standard that colleges have been producing the last few years and I was not impressed...

You can tell the ones that are working with plasteers :-/
 
Danny said:
I have seen the standard that colleges have been producing the last few years and I was not impressed...

You can tell the ones that are working with plasteers :-/
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This is why the circle of trust is vital round here Daniel
 
It stands to reason, if your out doing it every day your going to become more adept.
i had a guy with me a few months ago who had been to collage, and in 2 years had escaped cutting beads.
How the fuk do you expect to plaster after 2 years if you have never even cut a bead.
 
kebab king said:
It stands to reason, if your out doing it every day your going to become more adept.
i had a guy with me a few months ago who had been to collage, and in 2 years had escaped cutting beads.
How the fuk do you expect to plaster after 2 years if you have never even cut a bead.
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Probably had the beader do it ;)
 
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