Spray finish down at BG

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essexandy

essexandy

The Lake Governor
Well today my son and I went down to Erith to have a play with a Ritmo Powercoat and the BG Spray Finish.
Now I should say to start with that my son has absolutely no experience of the trade at all, and that I had asked Joe BGs demonstrator if he could just give us a quick demo of the spraying and then let us just get on and have a crack at a room on our own. So to start with Joe sprayed a wall while we just watched and asked questions, then he handed my son the "spray gun" (is that right) and away he went. Within about five minutes tops he had sprayed the opposite wall (7.2m2) with not to many overly thick or thin areas but not perfect.
The process is totally different from finishing hand applied multi.
Once the wall is sprayed it has a texture resembling Tyrolean, this is then left for five to ten minutes before it is flattened in. Joe had used one of the s*p*r*lex spats on his wall but I used a 20in trowel, at this stage you really don't need to be to fussy about getting lines and whatnot out. Now get this, you now leave the wall for 40 minutes before it will take another trowel and even then it's not overly firm. I used my bog standard 11in Marshalltown to put a trowel over the wall and couldn't believe just how forgiving it is and how workable it was after all this time on the wall. Anyway it got left for a bit longer while we sorted out the little room we were going to tackle, putting up beads and scrimming the joints before I put another trowel over it. At this stage I was pretty happy with the wall and knew that another quick trowel would see it finished.
Now we got going on the room.
My son started by spraying down the three beads and scrim to build out the thickness a little. We gave it a few minutes before I flattened down the scrim and beads and my son started spraying. Having only done the one wall before he had already got more idea now and got the room on quickly and more evenly than before.
Again once on it was left, this time for about 15 minutes before I flattened it down. This time I deliberately took even less care with the flattening in to see just what I could get away with.
As mentioned earlier you are supposed to leave it for 40 minutes but we went and had lunch and I didn't get back to the walls for an hour. Now just imagine what Multi would be like after that:RpS_scared: but not this gear it just seemed to come back workable as the trowel glanced over it, ok perhaps not quite as easy as that but no major issues. Now because I hadn't flattened in very well it did pimple quite badly which is what I wanted as you only really know how good a material is when you find out what you can do with it when things aren't going at their best.
Anyway I went through the due process of leaving it a fair while between trowels and sure enough after three trowels, using a carbon steel for the last the pimples were out to my satisfaction and the walls looked pretty good.

So what did we learn today?

Well I reckon anyone could learn to spray this gear using the Ritmo in no time at all.
Any thickness needs to filled out a little ahead of the main spraying, I would probably mix a little bit of gear up stiffer by hand and fill out with a hawk and trowel.
You don't need to be overly fussy with flattening down.
This Spray Finish is very very forgiving and workable over a much longer period than other finish plasters I've used apart from the original Siraphite and is very fine just like the old Carlite Finish for those that remember that.
Now this is going to be obvious to the machine boys, because the Ritmo is only mixing the plaster just before you spray it on the wall it is like doing a rolling set with constantly fresh gear and because of this and the length of time between the start of a hit and getting it finished I reckon you'd need to do really big hits to make it work for you.
Spray Finish can be hand applied and I would think it could be really handy when doing a big big ceiling.
And lastly I still think that although the spat may be the best tool for the initial flattening you get a better finish using a trowel.
P.S. thanks to Joe who was a pleasure to be with even though he knew I didn't like his technique with the spat and had said so. I'd definitely recommend anyone to get down there for a go if you're genuinely interested in Spray Finish.
 
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thanks andy for the write up - your up late!

Just heading out the door for our day with Joe from BG will let u know what we think
 
andy would they do a day hand applying it or is it only spray at the minute? we regularly get 50-70m2 ceilings and would be interested in using this.

do you know if you can overskim with it or is it purely for boards?
 
beddy said:
andy would they do a day hand applying it or is it only spray at the minute? we regularly get 50-70m2 ceilings and would be interested in using this.

do you know if you can overskim with it or is it purely for boards?
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If were you I'd phone and ask, I've the demo guys number and I'll ask if he minds me giving it to you.
My guess is they may well be happy for you to have a day on it as it's the material that they're trying to push not so much the machines. I do know Steve has over sprayed one of the walls we did yesterday (yes is was that rough) and apparently it worked well.
 
Oh and they've got some lads trying to use it on waterproofed S&C at the moment, apparently because of the way it's sprayed it can't cope with suction.
 
I read on BG that only thistle spray and Durafinish can be sprayed they dont recommend spraying multi for some reason. I would say it could be used as an overskim if its anything like Durafinish you would'nt need to pva the walls before you plaster
 
Had a great day and got excellent walls with this stuff today. This plaster is very nice to use, it has a very slow set speed and means that large areas can easily be covered and trowelled up nice. I agree with every bit of detail andy has given.

It worked fine on over skimming some really doddy walls :flapper: I would use this stuff for doing reskims. We built out the beads with some slightly stiffer gear first which worked well.

The s*p*r*lex spatulars are excellent and every time you touch it more water seems to come to the surface making it very workable with out the need to apply any additional water.

Plastic trowels also seemed to give a much nicer finish, shinning the wall off which Joe assured me would not mean that paint does not take to it! I have got a sheet of board that we did in the van so am gonna paint it a see for myself.

We are going the machine root for sure. And would use this spray finish for large areas even if we didnt have a machine but we would use multi for a little job.
 
beddy said:
andy would they do a day hand applying it or is it only spray at the minute? we regularly get 50-70m2 ceilings and would be interested in using this.

do you know if you can overskim with it or is it purely for boards?
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yes for sure its made for that sized ceiling we have a 125m2 that we now feel we could do in one go with three of us even if it was hand applied
 
I hear you're thinking of going down the 110v route as I am Steve, are you thinking of getting the Powercoat or Ritmo M with the conversion kit?
You did well to get over my walls with a 2mm coat mate.
 
Nah we are gonna go 240v so we can get the acrylic add on as I feel these thin coat systems are gonna become more popular.

We are getting the a genny so hoping being on most sites won't be a problem as the 3 Phasers seem to have no issues.

Everyone says the prefer the 240 as it allows a thicker mix and the 110 has to be quite a watery mix to work well. I don't know how true that is though, anyone shed any light on this.

We are float and setting tomorrow with hardwall and multi so I'm gonna leave a bit just floated and use some of this spray finish on it Monday to see how it copes. I'm hoping my dad is right as he has a feeling it might not be as bad as multi.

How good would it be to spray and float all day, then come back the next day and finish it the next day. Even if we had to hand apply the finish it would be a massive time saver.
 
Yeah andy if you wouldn't mind, be interesting to go n try it out. Do you know if itd be 1 or 2 coats hand applied?
 
i hand applied some and found it was a lot harder to get a finish. dunno why??

what did u think about the overspray?
 
Over spray is minimal and I'm sure we will be better at spray to minimise this.

It's one coat machine or hand applied

It's nothing like finish needs alot less playing with. Less water and spatulars and plastic trowels.

Time to update the tools and move on to the future
 
CurrierPlastering said:
Nah we are gonna go 240v so we can get the acrylic add on as I feel these thin coat systems are gonna become more popular.

We are getting the a genny so hoping being on most sites won't be a problem as the 3 Phasers seem to have no issues.

Everyone says the prefer the 240 as it allows a thicker mix and the 110 has to be quite a watery mix to work well. I don't know how true that is though, anyone shed any light on this.

We are float and setting tomorrow with hardwall and multi so I'm gonna leave a bit just floated and use some of this spray finish on it Monday to see how it copes. I'm hoping my dad is right as he has a feeling it might not be as bad as multi.

How good would it be to spray and float all day, then come back the next day and finish it the next day. Even if we had to hand apply the finish it would be a massive time saver.
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I can see what you're saying about the acrylic, but both Stu and the guys from PFT said there was no noticeable difference in performance between the 110v and the 240v with other materials. I spoke to the HSE the other day and would not feel confident of not getting turned away from some sites with the 240v machine. I know for a fact the last decent site (500) houses I did wouldn't have any 240v tools or plant on site, no exceptions. Hopefully PFT or Stu will find a decent 110v compressor to enable the 110v Ritmo to spray acrylics as well, it would then be an unstoppable first venture into the world of machines then.
 
i've sold a 110v ritmo and put weber monocouche and ocr through during the training. the 110v or 240 both have a 1.5 kw motor. the 110v will draw more amps and has struggled with k rend E grade only, that doesn't mean it wont mix it only that it wasnt as easy going through and drew more amps. i'm pretty sure that if k rend were aware their e grade product needed tweeking they would do it. their base coats go through no problem.

all ritmos are capable of the same applications
 
Nice one Andy for the detailed explanation....could be a nice alternative to dry lined big areas on site. Those s*p*r*lex on poles for big ceilings?

Is it not suited to backing plasters just board? Hardwall & set all off the machine would be nice.

What sort of returns do people investing in the kit expect from the system? Spraying thin coat systems as well would lessen the impact of 5 - 6k.
 
theblones said:
i've sold a 110v ritmo and put weber monocouche and ocr through during the training. the 110v or 240 both have a 1.5 kw motor. the 110v will draw more amps and has struggled with k rend E grade only, that doesn't mean it wont mix it only that it wasnt as easy going through and drew more amps. i'm pretty sure that if k rend were aware their e grade product needed tweeking they would do it. their base coats go through no problem.

all ritmos are capable of the same applications
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Apart from acrylics? There isn't a 110v compressor for them yet is there Blones?
 
The Ritmo WILL pump and convey the acrylics.

With the on board compressor supplied with the ritmo's you can use it for applying the acrylics and then flatten it back to trowel finish.

To spray the acrylics as a finished texture that you don't trowel you require a compressor that has about 350 ltrs output The large pft LK402 compressor is not available at the moment in 110v the large compressor and machine run independently of each other. Therefore you can easily source a capable 110v compressor with a suitable output for texturing. I think Les Lord has allready sourced a 110v compressor in anticipation of this. It does not have to be made by PFT, all its doing is blowing a load of air through a hole brother
 
Cheers for that Blones, to me that makes it a no brainer to have the 110v Ritmo if it can do everything and no worries about turning up on any job just to be turned away. Don't get me wrong I've never applied or even been asked to use acrylics but it would be another string to my old bow and great for my son going forwards.
 
If you skimmed every day the return in the investment would
Be more rapid
Being realistic i would wAnt an extra 10 mts or so per set
To cover the machines costs
Over 3 sets and 5 days this will be productive
Its not realistic to expect to finish 50 mts plus per set on ur own
If 2 plasterers layed on their own sets and then 1 plasterer
Attempted to finish these areas and maintain a good clean standard
For 3 sets a day it would not be possible
However we have all gone for that 1 more wall and regretted it

The skim set up is aimed to help plasterers who use and mix a lot of skim
plaster.
 
Its not just that jenks 90% of the time alot of lads are skimming so if were using the machine for that it covers the cost for when we really need them for renders
 
Andy/currier was it one coatspray after filling joints etc ? Currier did you use the sponge on yours?
 
Compressor uses plenty of amps too, then add the water pump. The site transformers are chock a block most of the time especially in winter. A 110v set up would trip transformer I think, I've never successfully used the 240v ritmo from a 10kva 110v transformer with a 3.3kva step up ever. I think you need it's own designated power source so a generator would be needed and that takes fuel which adds to the cost for £2.25 m2. To run ritmo and big compressor you need a lot of kva. Sorry chaps but you need to know these things before investing, hope I've helped and don't get slated too much.
 
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McPlaster said:
Compressor uses plenty of amps too, then add the water pump. The site transformers are chock a block most of the time especially in winter. A 110v set up would trip transformer I think, I've never successfully used the 240v ritmo from a 10kva 110v transformer with a 3.3kva step up ever. I think you need it's own designated power source so a generator would be needed and that takes fuel which adds to the cost for £2.25 m2. To run ritmo and big compressor you need a lot of kva. Sorry chaps but you need to know these things before investing, hope I've helped and don't get slated too much.
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I've been looking at an 8kva generator to run the Ritmo, water pump and lights when necessary. I think the fuel consumption is about 18ltr. every 6.5 hours. which would be about £25 a day which just means even more mtrs. need to be covered. There are definitely quite a few extra costs to take into account on top of buying the machine, that's why it feels like such a big step to order one. A compressor for acrylics is just an after thought really.
 
Andy you need a high volume compressor to spray finish, the same as for acrylic. I have the ritmo M and find it a great little mixerpump for mono and base coats, I haven't sprayed a lot of hardwall with it but it does it no sweat. I can't see me up grading to spray finish, these days I'm using dirty water to get the stuff to set quicker rather than pro longing a hit of finish, couple of buckets a hit and gone. £2.25m² forget it. It would be a lot of gear to hump about too, sometimes I use the plunger instead of a drill these days too, now that's travelling light!
 
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McPlaster said:
Andy you need a high volume compressor to spray finish, the same as for acrylic. I have the ritmo M and find it a great little mixerpump for mono and base coats, I haven't sprayed a lot of hardwall with it but it does it no sweat. I can't see me up grading to spray finish, these days I'm using dirty water to get the stuff to set quicker rather than pro longing a hit of finish, couple of buckets a hit and gone. £2.25m² forget it. It would be a lot of gear to hump about too, sometimes I use the plunger instead of a drill these days too, now that's travelling light!
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I'm really green with this machine malarkey McPlaster but I'm pretty sure the Ritmo M sprays the BG Spray Finish without using a different compressor but has to have a different mixing assembly and spray gun, but I could be wrong as my brain is as mixed up as a bucket of multi I've looked at so much stuff regarding these machines.:confused:
 
You don't need a big compressor for spraying finish plaster, the on board version is plenty as shown in the roadshow. The machine would only be on for 15-30 mins maximum per hit so no big fuel costs. You dont need a water pump for spraying acrylics. the ritmo is just a conveying pump in that situation.

The 110v ritmo runs a large cable from the source that is split at the end. The machine, water pump and compressor all draw their power separately.
 
theblones said:
You don't need a big compressor for spraying finish plaster, the on board version is plenty as shown in the roadshow. The machine would only be on for 15-30 mins maximum per hit so no big fuel costs. You dont need a water pump for spraying acrylics. the ritmo is just a conveying pump in that situation.

The 110v ritmo runs a large cable from the source that is split at the end. The machine, water pump and compressor all draw their power separately.
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That's what I thought Blones, I was only thinking of the costs when spraying CPI or other backing coats to be honest. One the costs of the materials over site mixed and secondly the gennie going most of the day.
 
the genny wouldnt be going most of the day andy every now and again you got to stop to get on top of the gear you got on the wall and if spraying cpi all day you will probably need to clean out the machine for a break youd probably spend about 12 quid a day on fuel
 
And if you're spraying all day with no hic ups you'd get a mountain on and probably feel a wee bit less tired
 
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