spray hardwall

vfr12 said:
The first two soft r@s I had were great- did 10-12 pallets of monorex. I am on my third at the moment and have 4 pallets monorex and 1 monochrome and all I get through the hose is piss! The other day I thought is the water and had to reduce it to very minimum, almost nothing, and still all I got was piss. Thought is the distance, was pumping 45 m away at ground level, but then I had the same problem before with 25m hose and being XL and running it from 3phase gene the speed was embarrassing, could have done it way quicker by hand. Felt like running with 1/4 of its capabilities. My next r@s won’t be G** soft that’s for sure. So, my suspicion was right then and what’s funny about it the dealers are playing dumb about it. Thanks clemo , I’ll put it right with the next purchase.
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There is something not right With the soft ones for sure. Thats u me 2 of my mates and see a other bloke giving out about them in the last few weeks. I'll tag @PFTwales he might know if there was a bad batch. They brilliant when they frist come out. It's a shame tbh.
 
theclemo said:
There is something not right With the soft ones for sure. Thats u me 2 of my mates and see a other bloke giving out about them in the last few weeks. I'll tag @PFTwales he might know if there was a bad batch. They brilliant when they frist come out. It's a shame tbh.
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f**k that mate! I think is the end road for me using them G** r&s . Went today to finish the render and I have no words to describe my anger and frustration tbh. Did you ever had marble mono? Well , I did today. Flat lines all over the place and unmixed gear in the form 5-10 m blobs all over the place! f**k me clemo never seen anything like this ! Now how do you finish mono like this? Took me whole day to make it right,ish and just remembered I had them s**t stuff from day one but one or two on every job, never so extreme, which makes me think the soft r&s ain’t right for my machine. There is another scenario tho- might not be suitable for winter use? I’ll be getting the standard r&s and prefer 1 or two pallets less and consistent output than dealing with s**t like this.
 
vfr12 said:
f**k that mate! I think is the end road for me using them G** r&s . Went today to finish the render and I have no words to describe my anger and frustration tbh. Did you ever had marble mono? Well , I did today. Flat lines all over the place and unmixed gear in the form 5-10 m blobs all over the place! f**k me clemo never seen anything like this ! Now how do you finish mono like this? Took me whole day to make it right,ish and just remembered I had them s**t stuff from day one but one or two on every job, never so extreme, which makes me think the soft r&s ain’t right for my machine. There is another scenario tho- might not be suitable for winter use? I’ll be getting the standard r&s and prefer 1 or two pallets less and consistent output than dealing with s**t like this.
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Never used it. I'll go back to the clamp. The standard r@s struggles with the ocr I use tbh.
 
theclemo said:
Never used it. I'll go back to the clamp. The standard r@s struggles with the ocr I use tbh.
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Yeah, I might get one as well. I think do to it’s design the soft r&s is set for failure if used at low temperatures. The rubber has to be flexible not stiff and that in the winter is hard to achieve.
 
vfr12 said:
Yeah, I might get one as well. I think do to it’s design the soft r&s is set for failure if used at low temperatures. The rubber has to be flexible not stiff and that in the winter is hard to achieve.
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Should this not be the sort of information given at the point of sale if true?
I've never understood why there isn't a booklet saying clearly when and why different R&S's are used and water/speed settings for all the common materials, at least as a starting point.
Too much of the machine world feels like witchcraft and voodoo.
 
essexandy said:
Should this not be the sort of information given at the point of sale if true?
I've never understood why there isn't a booklet saying clearly when and why different R&S's are used and water/speed settings for all the common materials, at least as a starting point.
Too much of the machine world feels like witchcraft and voodoo.
Click to expand...
Try to get any specific information out of the dealers or their attention ,if not sales related ,and you’ll see the truth behind the curtains.
And what’s more frustrating is we actually solve all the problems and share the info with them, but not between us , hence we heavily rely on them........
 
essexandy said:
Should this not be the sort of information given at the point of sale if true?
I've never understood why there isn't a booklet saying clearly when and why different R&S's are used and water/speed settings for all the common materials, at least as a starting point.
Too much of the machine world feels like witchcraft and voodoo.
Click to expand...

We have been trying to create a booklet for water setting on various machines and Rotors and Stators.

Unfortunately, these can only be a guide as the materials themselves change so much.
We did a test with a manufacturer, had the water set, went into a different batch of the same product, same colour and had to raise the water by 20!

Also, things need to be taken into account like wear. With the M330 for example, if you are running your machine at the beginning of the year at 600, 6 months down the line your dosing screw (part that pushes dry material into the mixing zone) is worn slightly, therefore taking less material in meaning you require less water.

We do give out basic guides on the M330 and M200 to our customers and are also creating some for the K4, G4 and others.

When we train our customers, we will always advise to run the material through a test pipe first, thisnis sinply the best way of testing the material consistency - visually and actually touching it.

With regards to softer rotors and Stators, if you look at my previous posts, I have also stated my thoughts on them.
The shore of the Rubber is less, meaning less strain on the machine and less amps drawn. If we talk about softer rotors and Stators, these were originally designed for the bigger machines that are running off 240. When a 3 phase machine starts, it pulls 32AMPS, however, of you use a soft, you’ll pull less, about 20AMPS.

This leads onto my previously posted thoughts on generator size of ‘underpower’. If your using a bigger source of power, such as a 20KVA gene, you’ll have no issues getting the machines going straight away as you have the power source, underpowered generators will make the machine struggle so my thoughts are the soft has been used to rectify this.
Same as running a 16AMP Machine off a 13 AMP supply - a reason for tripping etc!

Down side to the softs, they simply won’t last! Thy will allow a bigger aggregate through compared to a normal one, this will cause wear
We have tried it in the past.
 
vfr12 said:
Try to get any specific information out of the dealers or their attention ,if not sales related ,and you’ll see the truth behind the curtains.
And what’s more frustrating is we actually solve all the problems and share the info with them, but not between us , hence we heavily rely on them........
Click to expand...
To be fair Stuart was really, really good with us. We had a problem on a job, he came out to us within a couple of hours. Long lay off from using the Ritmo, he invited us over to retrain at his unit. All round decent guy.
I'm sure that Ryan is right and there can't be any hard and fast rules, but a general guide to using different materials would be great.
 
I’m currently away for my birthday so haven’t got everything to hand, but here is the M200 one - being updated for Jam with more products

spray hardwall
 
Plasterers1StopShop said:
We have been trying to create a booklet for water setting on various machines and Rotors and Stators.

Unfortunately, these can only be a guide as the materials themselves change so much.
We did a test with a manufacturer, had the water set, went into a different batch of the same product, same colour and had to raise the water by 20!

Also, things need to be taken into account like wear. With the M330 for example, if you are running your machine at the beginning of the year at 600, 6 months down the line your dosing screw (part that pushes dry material into the mixing zone) is worn slightly, therefore taking less material in meaning you require less water.

We do give out basic guides on the M330 and M200 to our customers and are also creating some for the K4, G4 and others.

When we train our customers, we will always advise to run the material through a test pipe first, thisnis sinply the best way of testing the material consistency - visually and actually touching it.

With regards to softer rotors and Stators, if you look at my previous posts, I have also stated my thoughts on them.
The shore of the Rubber is less, meaning less strain on the machine and less amps drawn. If we talk about softer rotors and Stators, these were originally designed for the bigger machines that are running off 240. When a 3 phase machine starts, it pulls 32AMPS, however, of you use a soft, you’ll pull less, about 20AMPS.

This leads onto my previously posted thoughts on generator size of ‘underpower’. If your using a bigger source of power, such as a 20KVA gene, you’ll have no issues getting the machines going straight away as you have the power source, underpowered generators will make the machine struggle so my thoughts are the soft has been used to rectify this.
Same as running a 16AMP Machine off a 13 AMP supply - a reason for tripping etc!

Down side to the softs, they simply won’t last! Thy will allow a bigger aggregate through compared to a normal one, this will cause wear
We have tried it in the past.
Click to expand...
I wish you were selling ritmos, or at least service, parts etc .... you c**t
 
The soft rotors and stators have been developed for difficult " Render" products.

Its true in some cases a more powerful generator will provide the extra power needed 1% of the time on start up when you do use difficult products or cheap rotors and stators but then do you don't need all that extra power whilst the machine is running. The extra cost of a more powerful generator and all the extra weight is something i would consider before diving into buying a machine.

You other option is to purchase a cheaper and lighter normal size generator and use the soft range of Stators which cost no more than any other in the range and will guarantee to mix and pump the difficult products.

An example of this being on a job i am working at myself and using Weber silver pearl. The job is one of them that has been going on for ages and some of the bags were in poor condition I had my normal twister set up on my G4 in 3 phase mode and carried on with my start up everytime i turned the water down the machine and generator started struggling and grinding to a halt. I swapped the twister for a D6-3 soft and there was no problem . It sprayed at full speed at 15 bar backpressure with absolutely no issues. Previously PFT have developed other stators such as a clampable D4-2 for a time when K rend silicone was a problem material.
My point being that PFT are continually developing, not just machines but rotors,stators,mixing shafts & everything else so that the end user can work with what he allready has rather than making much bigger purchases.

Our first sample B4-2 soft stators were on test last year and were lasting 25-30 ton with our guys testing them, If there is a problem then it will be fixed.

I would reccomend a D6-3 slimline for a Ritmo XL in 230v mode. Again it is a stator that has been developed specifically for the machine and wont cost much more than a standard twister.
I use a slimline when running my G4 in 230v mode. I run the water pump and compressor of one cable and the machine of a seperate cable. Its always worked fine
 
Extra cost and weight has nothing to do with it, neither does the cost of the Rotor and Stator - the only things that matter are quality

The setup cost of a K4 and 20KVA generator is cheaper than any other setup with a smaller Generator

Extra weight of 40kg that you move twice a day! If we are getting worried about that I do worry!

Is been proved time and time again a more powerful generator is better for your machine and allows it to perform correctly.
This isn’t a sales pitch but come directly from end users also. From a technical point of view this can also and has been proved

This is one of the huge benefits I always promote about the M330! The mix quality is far superior to any other machine and you don’t need to adapt grout machine of change itbin anyway for it to mix ‘tougher’ products
 
ive had a 15kva kohler for 16 years. never had a problem with it being underpowered. theres always been an easy solution .
I cant think of a single scenario in the last 16 years i needed a 20kva
 
PFTwales said:
The soft rotors and stators have been developed for difficult " Render" products.

Its true in some cases a more powerful generator will provide the extra power needed 1% of the time on start up when you do use difficult products or cheap rotors and stators but then do you don't need all that extra power whilst the machine is running. The extra cost of a more powerful generator and all the extra weight is something i would consider before diving into buying a machine.

You other option is to purchase a cheaper and lighter normal size generator and use the soft range of Stators which cost no more than any other in the range and will guarantee to mix and pump the difficult products.

An example of this being on a job i am working at myself and using Weber silver pearl. The job is one of them that has been going on for ages and some of the bags were in poor condition I had my normal twister set up on my G4 in 3 phase mode and carried on with my start up everytime i turned the water down the machine and generator started struggling and grinding to a halt. I swapped the twister for a D6-3 soft and there was no problem . It sprayed at full speed at 15 bar backpressure with absolutely no issues. Previously PFT have developed other stators such as a clampable D4-2 for a time when K rend silicone was a problem material.
My point being that PFT are continually developing, not just machines but rotors,stators,mixing shafts & everything else so that the end user can work with what he allready has rather than making much bigger purchases.

Our first sample B4-2 soft stators were on test last year and were lasting 25-30 ton with our guys testing them, If there is a problem then it will be fixed.

I would reccomend a D6-3 slimline for a Ritmo XL in 230v mode. Again it is a stator that has been developed specifically for the machine and wont cost much more than a standard twister.
I use a slimline when running my G4 in 230v mode. I run the water pump and compressor of one cable and the machine of a seperate cable. Its always worked fine
Click to expand...

There is definitely a problem with the soft b4-2 I was getting tons and tons out of them. Now am not. Same as a few other blokes I know. They where brilliant. Hope it can be sorted as we spray kilsaran druarend ocr. The the normal b4-2 struggles with it.

Still love my ritmo tho
 
theclemo said:
There is definitely a problem with the soft b4-2 I was getting tons and tons out of them. Now am not. Same as a few other blokes I know. They where brilliant. Hope it can be sorted as we spray kilsaran druarend ocr. The the normal b4-2 struggles with it.

Still love my ritmo tho
Click to expand...

So there you go ! Just by changing the stator to a more suitable one any issues are instantly overcome and you can get back to spraying.

Thats why PFT is always years ahead. Tbey take the time and money to ensure all their products are the best they can be
 
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PFTwales said:
The soft rotors and stators have been developed for difficult " Render" products.

Its true in some cases a more powerful generator will provide the extra power needed 1% of the time on start up when you do use difficult products or cheap rotors and stators but then do you don't need all that extra power whilst the machine is running. The extra cost of a more powerful generator and all the extra weight is something i would consider before diving into buying a machine.

You other option is to purchase a cheaper and lighter normal size generator and use the soft range of Stators which cost no more than any other in the range and will guarantee to mix and pump the difficult products.

An example of this being on a job i am working at myself and using Weber silver pearl. The job is one of them that has been going on for ages and some of the bags were in poor condition I had my normal twister set up on my G4 in 3 phase mode and carried on with my start up everytime i turned the water down the machine and generator started struggling and grinding to a halt. I swapped the twister for a D6-3 soft and there was no problem . It sprayed at full speed at 15 bar backpressure with absolutely no issues. Previously PFT have developed other stators such as a clampable D4-2 for a time when K rend silicone was a problem material.
My point being that PFT are continually developing, not just machines but rotors,stators,mixing shafts & everything else so that the end user can work with what he allready has rather than making much bigger purchases.

Our first sample B4-2 soft stators were on test last year and were lasting 25-30 ton with our guys testing them, If there is a problem then it will be fixed.

I would reccomend a D6-3 slimline for a Ritmo XL in 230v mode. Again it is a stator that has been developed specifically for the machine and wont cost much more than a standard twister.
I use a slimline when running my G4 in 230v mode. I run the water pump and compressor of one cable and the machine of a seperate cable. Its always worked fine
Click to expand...
what do you use when in 3phase ,Ian? I can tell you that's not the perfect r&s . I agree tho in single phase it works up to 25m . As fr generator, can you run your G4 in single phase with the water pump attached to it? Cos I can't! I wonder if 20kv gene will? Running my water pump and machine in 3phase from the gene is not something I am happy about, I can tell the gene is struggling. Again, would an 20kv do better? I know you are saying use the water pump separate, but sometimes you don't have a choice and I think a gene should be more than capable of running both, just my opinion of course.
 
PFTwales said:
So there you go ! Just by changing the stator to a more suitable one any issues are instantly overcome and you can get back to spraying.

Thats why PFT is always years ahead. Tbey take the time and money to ensure all their products are the best they can be
Click to expand...

Years ahead? M-tec don’t have this issue so you don’t need to even change the Stator - that’s being years ahead Jonsey
 
vfr12 said:
what do you use when in 3phase ,Ian? I can tell you that's not the perfect r&s . I agree tho in single phase it works up to 25m . As fr generator, can you run your G4 in single phase with the water pump attached to it? Cos I can't! I wonder if 20kv gene will? Running my water pump and machine in 3phase from the gene is not something I am happy about, I can tell the gene is struggling. Again, would an 20kv do better? I know you are saying use the water pump separate, but sometimes you don't have a choice and I think a gene should be more than capable of running both, just my opinion of course.
Click to expand...

What size Generator are you currently using?
 
vfr12 said:
what do you use when in 3phase ,Ian? I can tell you that's not the perfect r&s . I agree tho in single phase it works up to 25m . As fr generator, can you run your G4 in single phase with the water pump attached to it? Cos I can't! I wonder if 20kv gene will? Running my water pump and machine in 3phase from the gene is not something I am happy about, I can tell the gene is struggling. Again, would an 20kv do better? I know you are saying use the water pump separate, but sometimes you don't have a choice and I think a gene should be more than capable of running both, just my opinion of course.
Click to expand...
most 3 phase machine have built in gennys. try a 20 kva see if it makes any difference
 
This all confirms what I said earlier about the need for a decent comprehensive booklet.
When I first bought my Ritmo how the hell was I supposed to know that different materials need different R&S's or which ones?
The PFT instructions might as well have been written in Greek!
 
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