The case of the missing plasterboard screws and the skimming conundrum

[jgw1]

Hi all,

I recently brought down an old lathe and plaster ceiling and then put up a layer of 15mm Knauf soundboard with 150mm screw spacing and 320mm separation between the joists using 41mm screws. Well within the specification that I received from Bristish Gypsum for their equivalent board.

I then put up a layer of 12.5mm Knauf soundboard as the room has a kitchen above it with a tiled floor and my understanding is that lathe and plaster is actually a good sound insulator and I wantd to match that.

The 12.5mm was put up with 150mm screw spacing and 320mm separation between the joists using 60mm screws.

All fine and dandy, the plasterer skimmed the ceiling yesterday and he did a lovely job.

However this morning I remembered that on the last board I had I had run out of screws (and then went and bought some more) so there is one board up there where the edges are secured at 150mm screw centers but the none board edges are secured at 300mm screw centers. I am now a bit worried that this board will warp of sag as the recommended spacing was 200mm from British Gypsum.

I am trying to convince myself that it will be OK, I think that given the joist spacing is 320mm that this will reduce the possibility of sagging or cracking. Plus it was fixed against a 15mm board above and the two layers had a layer of green glue between them that provides some level of adhension. Finally the board is not actually below the said kitchen as the flat above runs into the eaves - so little disturbance from above.

Any thoughts on whether I have a probelm from a plasterers persective?

 

[essexandy]

You have absolutely nothing to worry about. By the way I've never heard of the two layers of double tacking being glued together, belt and braces.

 

[jgw1]

Thanks, was starting to go mental with the uncertainty.

The material between the board was green glue, it is designed to decouple the layers and improve sound insulation. Its very sticky so as a side effect it bonds to the layers (and everything else too).

I would also like to say, after having double layered a 25m2 ceiling in acoustic board that I hope I never ever have to do it again*

* Except the dining room which the missus says she'd like me to do.

 

[essexandy]

Some builders/tackers are so tight with screws you wouldn't believe, let alone using the correct length of screw but their ceilings rarely fail.

 

[Rhys]

For a 47" wide board (4ft) we've always just put in 5 screws per row (clouts in years gone by). Any more to me is overkill and could end up weakening the board imho.

 

[jgw1]

Would that also be applicable to the heavier boards I put up?

 

[bubbles65]

9 in a row for me :RpS_thumbup:

 

[jamesthefirst]

If we go to war with china a nuclear bomb won't budge it!

 

[Jace]

same as rhys 5 across the span of the board 4ft

 

[jgw1]

Great, I can calm down now.

 

[essexandy]

For a 47" wide board (4ft) we've always just put in 5 screws per row (clouts in years gone by). Any more to me is overkill and could end up weakening the board imho.

same as rhys 5 across the span of the board 4ft

You should use seven across a 1.2m board with a bound edge or eight across a cut edge.

 

[spunky]

Jesus I usually do 5 too tops

 

[jgw1]

With the screws on the unbound edges I found that even with the recommended 13mm spacing I could see some of the screws damaging the board. In these cases I had to take out the screw and relocate, often finishing the screw by hand. How do you guys handle this?

In future I reckon I'd add baton to either side of the joist to widen the 50mm area I had to join to and go >25mm from the edge.

 

[spunky]

Before you fix to the unbound edge, position and fix the next board exept the unbound edge up to it then fix both unbound edges, you will have to go tighter to the cut edge but it shouldn't damage the board as much,

 

[Rhys]

Lets face it, with clout nails all that banging and joists bouncing caused nails to pop. Nowadays with screws there's none of that.
13mm spacing?? Feck me, the screws are nearly touching.. :-0

 

[jgw1]

That's great spunky, I can see that the additional support would help.


Is 13mm going to be problem? They are indeend about an inch apart.

 

[McPlaster]

Go down the pub, have a few pints and forget about it.

 

[jgw1]

You can probably tell that I'm one of those DIYers that worry. I was quite happy with the job when doing it, now that the trowels been in and I can't change anything I worry

 

[Rhys]

Ooh, ssshhhh!

..did you hear a creak?







:RpS_lol:

 

[jgw1]

That'll be me, shifting the bed to the other side of the room away from the board.

 

[spunky]

Tbh mate im lost i thought you meant 13mm from the edge of the board and you're struggling to find the joists

 

[jgw1]

oh no, 13mm from the unbound edge, 150mm apart along the unbound edge. So with the adjacent board butting up the screws are 26mm apart.

 

[Rhys]

Ah, 6" centres (here's me thinking you meant 15mm centres lol). :RpS_thumbup:

 

[rockhardsolidplastering]

my heads hurting

 

[jgw1]

I was doing this (dimensions are in mm where the screw is from the edge):
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[jgw1]

Then I mistakenly did this on the last board (which I meant to rectify):
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I was wondering if the 300mm spacing internally was a problem. Advice seems that its not, especially given the 320 joist spacing. All unbound (1200mm) edges have screws >13mm from the edge but this causes some damage in some places.

I have more screws than if I'd had 600mm jopist spacings, so I think I am golden. I will now be happy to put bed under said board.

 

[Rhys]

... Put some newspapers on the floor first for the next few days, and check nightly to see if there is any dust on them.. Not trying to worry you or anything but I think that creaking is getting louder.. :-0



















:rolleyes):RpS_thumbsup:

 

[flynnyman]

I was doing this (dimensions are in mm where the screw is from the edge):
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[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]

960​

[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]

1280​

[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]

1600​

[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]

1920​

[/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, bgcolor: transparent"]

2240​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The only thing you should worry about is probably the weight of all them screws

 

[jgw1]

Well my wrist aches, you might think that that was from being up a ladder with a Bosch 24V Drill driver for the 1000 screws I put in. Or possibly it was the post job completion celebration.

 

[Rhys]

Well my wrist aches...

...possibly it was the post job completion celebration.

:RpS_lol:

 

[Jace]

^^^^haha excellent

andy ive always only put 5 or 6 in never had a problem, got tons of screws in the garage now though haha:RpS_wink:

 

[rockhardsolidplastering]

arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[warriorupnorth]

then i mistakenly did this on the last board (which i meant to rectify):
[table="width: 432"]
[tr]
[td="class: Xl65, width: 64, bgcolor: Transparent"]

0​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl66, width: 64, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl68, width: 64, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

150​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl69, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
i[td="class: Xl70, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

300​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl69, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl70, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

450​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl69, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl70, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

600​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl69, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl70, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

750​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl69, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl70, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

900​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl69, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl70, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

1050​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl69, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl70, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

1200​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl71, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl72, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl72, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl72, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl72, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl72, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl72, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl73, bgcolor: Transparent"]

x​

[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"][/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

0​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

320​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

640​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

960​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

1280​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

1600​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

1920​

[/td]
[td="class: Xl65, bgcolor: Transparent"]

2240​

[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

i was wondering if the 300mm spacing internally was a problem. Advice seems that its not, especially given the 320 joist spacing. All unbound (1200mm) edges have screws >13mm from the edge but this causes some damage in some places.

I have more screws than if i'd had 600mm jopist spacings, so i think i am golden. I will now be happy to put bed under said board.

wow

 

[bubbles65]

Are these new joists or the old (existing) ones?

 

[spunky]

Ffs don't start policy