V.a.t

[Deleted member 23452]

My point is that there's no profit in devaluing other trades to make yours look more valuable. It works against everyone in the industry. I'm not talking about banter and p1ss taking, but when people say this trade is harder than that one it's firstly incorrect, and secondly slagging others to make yourself looks better never works.

It's my genuine belief that no skilled tradesman who is trained, experienced, versatile within their trade and produces quality work should be on less than £250:00 a day (£30:00 per hour) if they are self employed, or £160:00 a day (£20:00 per hour) if they are on the cards. Not because I compare the pay with other jobs, simply because when you take into account the time taken to learn the trade properly, and the physical element involved in the work, I think that's what the rate should be. That way apprenticeships become viable again as it will be worth the investment in training, which in turn will get rid of the poor tradesmen because the emphasis will be on quality.

Sadly, I'm not in charge. :glare:


BTW, I didn't intend to jump down your throat, it just winds me up a treat when people either devalue, or look down on any tradesmen in the construction industry. Some days the anger management thing doesn't go so well. :RpS_unsure:

 

[malc]

the rates that you state are about correct and in line with those quoted by the builders federation.

 

[owls]

My point is that there's no profit in devaluing other trades to make yours look more valuable. It works against everyone in the industry. I'm not talking about banter and p1ss taking, but when people say this trade is harder than that one it's firstly incorrect, and secondly slagging others to make yourself looks better never works.

It's my genuine belief that no skilled tradesman who is trained, experienced, versatile within their trade and produces quality work should be on less than £250:00 a day (£30:00 per hour) if they are self employed, or £160:00 a day (£20:00 per hour) if they are on the cards. Not because I compare the pay with other jobs, simply because when you take into account the time taken to learn the trade properly, and the physical element involved in the work, I think that's what the rate should be. That way apprenticeships become viable again as it will be worth the investment in training, which in turn will get rid of the poor tradesmen because the emphasis will be on quality.

Sadly, I'm not in charge. :glare:


BTW, I didn't intend to jump down your throat, it just winds me up a treat when people either devalue, or look down on any tradesmen in the construction industry. Some days the anger management thing doesn't go so well. :RpS_unsure:

Your not being realistic if a spread was charging 250 a day around here ( and it's an affluent area) they'd be sat around a lot. And 160 a day is off the mark as regards cards in. I have lads on my books cards in and there not getting no where near 800 a week. I appreciate your point but it's fantasy stuff.

 

[Deleted member 23452]

Your not being realistic if a spread was charging 250 a day around here ( and it's an affluent area) they'd be sat around a lot. And 160 a day is off the mark as regards cards in. I have lads on my books cards in and there not getting no where near 800 a week. I appreciate your point but it's fantasy stuff.

Absolutely, I agree it is but I'm saying it shouldn't be as they are rates that reflect what's involved in getting to that stage. Trade rates are never going to go that way sadly, it seems that the race to the bottom is going to carry on as the norm unfortunately.

 

[cooptaza]

What a load of b0ll0cks! Plastering is a skilled trade no different to the others, with the possible exception that when it goes wrong in plastering the wall or ceiling may look sh1t, but no one's going to die.

They all take years to gain a depth of knowledge and skill where you can claim to be a skilled tradesman. Equally they all (including plastering) can be picked up at a basic level in a matter of weeks.

Maybe one day people in the trades will realise that divide and conquer works well for keeping the rates and appreciation of all the trades down. Until tradesmen start valuing and appreciating the time and skill levels required in doing anything to a high standard it's pointless expecting a customer to put any value on them.

Well how come you never see bob the builder plastering. He seems pretty good at building and painting, and he says joinery work is piss easy.

Watch it all the time, don't think he has a clue

 

[User___removed]

Well how come you never see bob the builder plastering. He seems pretty good at building and painting, and he says joinery work is piss easy.

Watch it all the time, don't think he has a clue

Ha ha!!!

 

[theclemo]

Well how come you never see bob the builder plastering. He seems pretty good at building and painting, and he says joinery work is piss easy.

Watch it all the time, don't think he has a clue

Link Removed

 

[user_removed]

Rycarr, underneath your price on every quote just type.

quotation includes materials, labour and relevant taxes

should stop any confusion in future buddy.

 

[cooptaza]

Link Removed

Maybe he cut himself. That's about as close to plastering he will get.

 

[irish_spread]

Your not being realistic if a spread was charging 250 a day around here ( and it's an affluent area) they'd be sat around a lot. And 160 a day is off the mark as regards cards in. I have lads on my books cards in and there not getting no where near 800 a week. I appreciate your point but it's fantasy stuff.

Try living ing on that in London, I've got a perfect driving history and my van insurance alone is £800+ . Beer where I live is £3.60 a pint- and that's reasonable . Don't mention house prices , a 1 bed flat prob 220k

 

[owls]

I guess it's different region to region.

 

[BetterTAX]

@rycarr It does sound like you need some advice.

Firstly, it is a naive way to think that you can charge VAT when clearly you are not registered for it. Why would you think that?

Secondly, you should declare any earnings, cash or not, on your tax return... you all know this... and I'm sure you all do really. :rolleyes)

Thirdly, there is the flat rate VAT scheme (which I personally think is very complicated - my mate came unstuck and he had an accountant who should have known better!).

If you are self-employed/ sole trader you'd do well to get someone to help you complete your tax return at the end of the tax year. Make sure you keep records of what you spent, what you charged, where you were (for travel).

If you do need some advice, feel free to call us - we're happy to help where we can. Don't get too far into it without getting some advice.

And as a further piece of advice, if your invoice (either to you or from you) does not have the registered VAT number on it, you can't charge it and you shouldn't pay it.

Just as a comment to some of the remarks on doing yours and other trades down, I think this is something that is so inherent in the trades, to pay cash and get a discount. It's been encouraged by tradesmen since forever. I guess ultimately it does you a dis-service as that is what customers now expect. For a customer to pay 20% on top of a job that may overall cost £3000 (for example) is massive. And it's true, it is the end client who suffers the full whack - if you're VAT registered, you can offset it on your VATable purchases.

I'm not sure what the answer is - clearly government relies now on this little earner and I can't see them lowering it any time soon unfortunately. I have a feeling our VAT at 20% is probably the highest "sales" tax in the world. Personally, I don't like to see it as a + on the price - I'd sooner it was included so I don't have to think about it.

 

[nickelarse]

I guess it's different region to region.

Where are u based owly?

 

[owls]

Harrogate area, North Yorkshire.

 

[DMA]

@rycarr It does sound like you need some advice.

Firstly, it is a naive way to think that you can charge VAT when clearly you are not registered for it. Why would you think that?

Secondly, you should declare any earnings, cash or not, on your tax return... you all know this... and I'm sure you all do really. :rolleyes)

Thirdly, there is the flat rate VAT scheme (which I personally think is very complicated - my mate came unstuck and he had an accountant who should have known better!).

If you are self-employed/ sole trader you'd do well to get someone to help you complete your tax return at the end of the tax year. Make sure you keep records of what you spent, what you charged, where you were (for travel).

If you do need some advice, feel free to call us - we're happy to help where we can. Don't get too far into it without getting some advice.

And as a further piece of advice, if your invoice (either to you or from you) does not have the registered VAT number on it, you can't charge it and you shouldn't pay it.

Just as a comment to some of the remarks on doing yours and other trades down, I think this is something that is so inherent in the trades, to pay cash and get a discount. It's been encouraged by tradesmen since forever. I guess ultimately it does you a dis-service as that is what customers now expect. For a customer to pay 20% on top of a job that may overall cost £3000 (for example) is massive. And it's true, it is the end client who suffers the full whack - if you're VAT registered, you can offset it on your VATable purchases.

I'm not sure what the answer is - clearly government relies now on this little earner and I can't see them lowering it any time soon unfortunately. I have a feeling our VAT at 20% is probably the highest "sales" tax in the world. Personally, I don't like to see it as a + on the price - I'd sooner it was included so I don't have to think about it.

Too right!

Buy a new car and the VAT is in the price, buy a van and it's plus VAT.
It's all the same, but would rather not be reminded of the 3k gift to the Gubberment.

Smart people are vat registered & play the system to their advantage.

Dumb fcukers like me see the above as unpaid tax collectors who lose work because of the 20% load on the price.

Just don't go over the threshold if you're not vat registered, or you will incur all the fines without any of the benefits.