Who's changed there minds on Brexit

Dropsalot

Private Member
A candidate for the brexit party said on national radio the economy would take a hit in the short term, when pressed on what short term meant she said 30years or so. And that's the party saying it's a good idea
If that is correct, and we’ll have to experience it know, there will probably be a great deal of “I told you so” from staunch remainders. And that will serve me right for having the temerity to want this country to be more autonomous.

In that event, I will apologise to any remainders, eat a bit of humble pie and support any call for another referendum to rejoin the EU.
That is of course,.....as long as it is a democratic vote..........and only I’df I can overturn it if I decide I don’t like the outcome.
 

Robbo123

Well-Known Member
If that is correct, and we’ll have to experience it know, there will probably be a great deal of “I told you so” from staunch remainders. And that will serve me right for having the temerity to want this country to be more autonomous.

In that event, I will apologise to any remainders, eat a bit of humble pie and support any call for another referendum to rejoin the EU.
That is of course,.....as long as it is a democratic vote..........and only I’df I can overturn it if I decide I don’t like the outcome.
If you and 50% of the voting population decide to overturn it that sounds most reasonable.
Or we could just not leave. As when the party who want to are suggesting 30+ years of economic loss it's probably not a good idea?
Any reason you feel leaving is a positive thing?
 

Dropsalot

Private Member
If you and 50% of the voting population decide to overturn it that sounds most reasonable.
Or we could just not leave. As when the party who want to are suggesting 30+ years of economic loss it's probably not a good idea?
Any reason you feel leaving is a positive thing?
Magnanimous of you to agree that a greater percentage wins the vote. But 52% is unreasonable as it would require 100% turnout, as I said, unreasonable.
We cannot “just not leave”, because a majority, however misinformed you think they were, voted to leave. Democracy, in your opinion might be an ass, but nevertheless it is democracy.
I think we will do as well of not better economically. I think not being a submissive part of merkels superstate, is a positive. If nothing else, we will have highlighted the gravy train that European parliamentarians are riding. By leaving, we will ensure that our elected parliamentarians, have no option but to make sure they are successful at the job we pay them for, they will no longer be able to join the “failed politicians club” over there in Brussels. Is that not a positive?
 

Robbo123

Well-Known Member
Magnanimous of you to agree that a greater percentage wins the vote. But 52% is unreasonable as it would require 100% turnout, as I said, unreasonable.
We cannot “just not leave”, because a majority, however misinformed you think they were, voted to leave. Democracy, in your opinion might be an ass, but nevertheless it is democracy.
I think we will do as well of not better economically. I think not being a submissive part of merkels superstate, is a positive. If nothing else, we will have highlighted the gravy train that European parliamentarians are riding. By leaving, we will ensure that our elected parliamentarians, have no option but to make sure they are successful at the job we pay them for, they will no longer be able to join the “failed politicians club” over there in Brussels. Is that not a positive?
Where do you get the view point we will do as well if not better economically?
I'm not saying we should not leave because the majority were misinformed. I'm saying we should not leave if a confirmatory vote with 2 options remain or leave on these terms (whatever is negotiated or no deal if nothing can be negotiated). Now people have found out alot more the vote would have some relevance.
Me and the vast majority on here will never see eye to eye on it. I can't believe that deep down people can't see its common sense that now we know what's possible we should vote on if it's better than EU membership. Nothing anyone says will make me understand that point of view
 

Mouldyoldspudgun

Well-Known Member
Where do you get the view point we will do as well if not better economically?
I'm not saying we should not leave because the majority were misinformed. I'm saying we should not leave if a confirmatory vote with 2 options remain or leave on these terms (whatever is negotiated or no deal if nothing can be negotiated). Now people have found out alot more the vote would have some relevance.
Me and the vast majority on here will never see eye to eye on it. I can't believe that deep down people can't see its common sense that now we know what's possible we should vote on if it's better than EU membership. Nothing anyone says will make me understand that point of view
I get where you are coming from, I fiercely disagree with you, all I here is now we know what’s on offer we should have another vote, for this to be fair the EU would have to lay out exactly where it is going fro people like yourself to understand that it is a Supranational entity not multi national the whole idea of the EU was and is to remove the sovereignty from all countries and become as one, if you are happy with this then nothing anyone says to you will change your mind, I for one am extremely unhappy for this to happen to our nation and you will not change my mind on this. Of course the EU will never admit where it is going until it’s to late. You should be asking questions about where the EU is going and research it before you say we know what’s on offer.
 

Dropsalot

Private Member
Where do you get the view point we will do as well if not better economically?
I'm not saying we should not leave because the majority were misinformed. I'm saying we should not leave if a confirmatory vote with 2 options remain or leave on these terms (whatever is negotiated or no deal if nothing can be negotiated). Now people have found out alot more the vote would have some relevance
I’ve been alive a long time. I was alive before Mr.Heath took us into the then Common Market, a coalition of trading agreements. I remember the ebb and flow of commerce, of businesses gradually seeing the benefits of common trading agreements. Generally everyone thought it a good thing.
Then things began to change.......the common market, a collection of like minded trading partners, began to get influenced by politics.......staffs got bigger, the machinery to politicise everything got bigger until that became an end in and of itself. It became of “necessity “ a parliament.......able to govern and to make and pass laws .......(all for the common good we are told)..........it needed more funding to do its good works........and became populated by people only in it for the job, not to do good for a greater community or trade or anything, just for themselves. The whole thing has become a cesspit, and a retirement (semi I know) destination for failed politicians from every country. They schedule meetings, debate stuff, pass laws and cost a fortune, but we don’t need it. If Farage has done anything he has shone a spotlight on the belly of the beast. Attending as he did and taking pay, for not one meaningful vote, and he is not alone.
The place is corrupt. The inhabitants inept. I call their bluff. I think there will be a deal, though I’d be prepared to leave without one.
Sometimes a bloke just has to stand his ground and accept the consequences. Me and 17 odd million others will have to lump it if it’s not what we thought won’t we?
 

Robbo123

Well-Known Member
I’ve been alive a long time. I was alive before Mr.Heath took us into the then Common Market, a coalition of trading agreements. I remember the ebb and flow of commerce, of businesses gradually seeing the benefits of common trading agreements. Generally everyone thought it a good thing.
Then things began to change.......the common market, a collection of like minded trading partners, began to get influenced by politics.......staffs got bigger, the machinery to politicise everything got bigger until that became an end in and of itself. It became of “necessity “ a parliament.......able to govern and to make and pass laws .......(all for the common good we are told)..........it needed more funding to do its good works........and became populated by people only in it for the job, not to do good for a greater community or trade or anything, just for themselves. The whole thing has become a cesspit, and a retirement (semi I know) destination for failed politicians from every country. They schedule meetings, debate stuff, pass laws and cost a fortune, but we don’t need it. If Farage has done anything he has shone a spotlight on the belly of the beast. Attending as he did and taking pay, for not one meaningful vote, and he is not alone.
The place is corrupt. The inhabitants inept. I call their bluff. I think there will be a deal, though I’d be prepared to leave without one.
Sometimes a bloke just has to stand his ground and accept the consequences. Me and 17 odd million others will have to lump it if it’s not what we thought won’t we?
No, you and and 65 million others will have too
 

McBentLegs

Well-Known Member
Dunno why you guys bother trying to reason with Robbo, the guys completely blinded by ideaology, insults anyone who has a different opinion, definitely comes across like an indoctrinated student w**k*r.

Ignore button works wonders!
 

Mouldyoldspudgun

Well-Known Member
Dunno why you guys bother trying to reason with Robbo, the guys completely blinded by ideaology, insults anyone who has a different opinion, definitely comes across like an indoctrinated student w**k*r.

Ignore button works wonders!
You have to try to get him to open his mind to other possibilities it’s not his fault he was indoctrinated by the EU as a youngster it’s the schools fault for letting children be socially engineered in this way and other ways
 

Robbo123

Well-Known Member
So Roberto what do you disagree with? The fact that you don’t know Where the EU is going? Do you know where it’s going? Do you think you know? I can assure you, you do not
I disagree with you need to know every single detail. My point is we know far more now than we knew at the referendum, I'm sure we can agree on that. Therefore we can make a more educated decision. For example a hard border in Ireland is inevitable, even Boris has finally admitted that today. That will almost certainly cause huge problems in Ireland. We know we are almost certainly going to make a trade deal with America if we leave. Loss of scientific research projects. Custom checks, and the huge delays this will cause. Medicine shortages. Pound falling. The fact it's not the easiest deal in history. The fact the bus never said we would fund the NHS it said we could Etc etc
im not saying we know everything, we obviously never will but we know more.
 

McBentLegs

Well-Known Member
You have to try to get him to open his mind to other possibilities it’s not his fault he was indoctrinated by the EU as a youngster it’s the schools fault for letting children be socially engineered in this way and other ways
I tried reasoning with him, I voted remain ffs but still got called thick for saying I can see good and bad of both sides.. people like him make me swing even further to leave.

I'm only 33 myself so would have been through the same schooling process.. it's usually a further education thing where people just regurgitate whatever they are fed, no questions asked.
 

Dropsalot

Private Member
No, you and and 65 million others will have too
No I won’t. Of the 65 million only a percentage are eligible to vote, and of that eligible percentage only a smaller percentage could be bothered, and of that smaller percentage that could be bothered a majority won the vote.
It’s not fair but it is democratic.

You now hope that a greater proportion of the aforesaid percentage that couldn’t be arsed would now galvanise themselves to appear at a polling station if you can convince me and loads like me to give you another chance. That’s not democratic.

You could now bide your time to join in with “told you so” if economic Armageddon ensues, but I think you are better than that.
However, if nothing else you’ll make sure that you do everything in your power to ensure that as many people as possible vote on important stuff in the future.
That’s how democracy works.
 

Mouldyoldspudgun

Well-Known Member
I disagree with you need to know every single detail. My point is we know far more now than we knew at the referendum, I'm sure we can agree on that. Therefore we can make a more educated decision. For example a hard border in Ireland is inevitable, even Boris has finally admitted that today. That will almost certainly cause huge problems in Ireland. We know we are almost certainly going to make a trade deal with America if we leave. Loss of scientific research projects. Custom checks, and the huge delays this will cause. Medicine shortages. Pound falling. The fact it's not the easiest deal in history. The fact the bus never said we would fund the NHS it said we could Etc etc
im not saying we know everything, we obviously never will but we know more.
You are right we do know more about what could happen when we leave but we know nothing of what could happen if we stay. Here’s a thought what about no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland but customs checks on stuff that is exported to the EU from Ireland either in Irish ports or the EU, just putting it out there it doesn’t have to be between the two Irelands, it’s not our duty to regulate what they import but theirs after all it’s their market they want to safeguard
 

Robbo123

Well-Known Member
I tried reasoning with him, I voted remain ffs but still got called thick for saying I can see good and bad of both sides.. people like him make me swing even further to leave.

I'm only 33 myself so would have been through the same schooling process.. it's usually a further education thing where people just regurgitate whatever they are fed, no questions asked.
And I said the first time you said this, that the fact a bloke on a plastering forum can sway your position on such a big issue rather than looking at facts and making an informed decision yourself says alot about you
 

Robbo123

Well-Known Member
You are right we do know more about what could happen when we leave but we know nothing of what could happen if we stay. Here’s a thought what about no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland but customs checks on stuff that is exported to the EU from Ireland either in Irish ports or the EU, just putting it out there it doesn’t have to be between the two Irelands, it’s not our duty to regulate what they import but theirs after all it’s their market they want to safeguard
"but customs checks on stuff that is exported to the EU from Ireland" you expect the EU to check goods from one EU country to another?! What? That's kind of the whole point of a country being in the EU, that isn't needed.
Honestly read back what you just wrote lol
 

essexandy

The Lake Governor
I get where you are coming from, I fiercely disagree with you, all I here is now we know what’s on offer we should have another vote, for this to be fair the EU would have to lay out exactly where it is going fro people like yourself to understand that it is a Supranational entity not multi national the whole idea of the EU was and is to remove the sovereignty from all countries and become as one, if you are happy with this then nothing anyone says to you will change your mind, I for one am extremely unhappy for this to happen to our nation and you will not change my mind on this. Of course the EU will never admit where it is going until it’s to late. You should be asking questions about where the EU is going and research it before you say we know what’s on offer.
When you think that the country vote to join a 'common market' and what it is that we've been taken into by stealth it makes me wild with rage. My grandparents didn't go through the suffering of WW11 to then hand over our country within a lifetime.
 

Mouldyoldspudgun

Well-Known Member
I tried reasoning with him, I voted remain ffs but still got called thick for saying I can see good and bad of both sides.. people like him make me swing even further to leave.

I'm only 33 myself so would have been through the same schooling process.. it's usually a further education thing where people just regurgitate whatever they are fed, no questions asked.
Some people just have their views and that’s it for them, me I have to research it myself then make my mind up and I won’t be shifted from that opinion, I voted leave I can’t stand the EU it’s corrupt, it has nothing but contempt for its citizens, if they really cared they could offer leave voters dual nationality after all many of them hold EU passports which makes them EU citizens but apparently they will revoke this, when the Tories revoked the Isis terrorists British citizenship people in our parliament hit the roof
 
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Mouldyoldspudgun

Well-Known Member
When you think that the country vote to join a 'common market' and what it is that we've been taken into by stealth it makes me wild with rage. My grandparents didn't go through the suffering of WW11 to then hand over our country within a lifetime.
And still the s**t that sits in parliament goes to the Cenotaph every year to lay their wreaths, the bloody hypocrites
 

Mouldyoldspudgun

Well-Known Member
"but customs checks on stuff that is exported to the EU from Ireland" you expect the EU to check goods from one EU country to another?! What? That's kind of the whole point of a country being in the EU, that isn't needed.
Honestly read back what you just wrote lol
So surely that’s the same for the UK we were expected to have a border in the Irish Sea or don’t you look at it from both sides. If the EU wants to protect themselves can’t they trust the Irish to do it for them? If not then put a border in the sea between Ireland and the EU, we are leaving it is not down to us to protect their markets. Read what I wrote and think about it
 

Robbo123

Well-Known Member
Here’s a thought what about no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland but customs checks on stuff that is exported to the EU from Ireland either in Irish ports or the EU, just putting it out there it doesn’t have to be between the two Irelands
Some people just have their views and that’s it for them, me I have to research it myself then make my mind up and I won’t be shifted from that opinion, I voted leave I can’t stand the EU it’s corrupt, it has nothing but contempt for its citizens, if they really cared they could offer leave voters dual nationality after all many of them hold EU passports which makes them EU citizens but apparently they will revoke this, when the Tories revoked the Isis terrorists British citizenship people in our parliament hit the roof
What? MPs hit the roof as it was illegal.
You want the EU to offer leave voters dual nationality?
So surely that’s the same for the UK we were expected to have a border in the Irish Sea or don’t you look at it from both sides. If the EU wants to protect themselves can’t they trust the Irish to do it for them? If not then put a border in the sea between Ireland and the EU, we are leaving it is not down to us to protect their markets. Read what I wrote and think about it
What you wrote was that you want the EU to let Ireland who will remain in the EU if we leave to accept goods from a non EU country with zero checks, and somehow the EU know which goods from Ireland are originally from the UK and check them at ports... :risas2:

"If the EU wants to protect themselves can’t they trust the Irish to do it for them?" By not checking any goods coming from a non EU country? Honestly wtf are you on about
 

Dropsalot

Private Member
@Robbo123 , we are going to have to, like gentlemen, agree to disagree. It’s allowed in democracy.
My vote is as important as the next mans, and in a democracy should be upheld and supported.
The best you van hope for is that after we leave come what may in a few days time, is that a motion is tabled in the House of Commons for another referendum.
I doubt that those elected members would dare as they might be afraid that the wrath of 17+ million might put them out of work given the nature of the fickle electorate and the legions that couldn’t be arsed to vote the first time may not save them.
However, if they did and by a majority, however slim or otherwise, I would abide by it.
Or, ....
 

Robbo123

Well-Known Member
@Robbo123 , we are going to have to, like gentlemen, agree to disagree. It’s allowed in democracy.
My vote is as important as the next mans, and in a democracy should be upheld and supported.
The best you van hope for is that after we leave come what may in a few days time, is that a motion is tabled in the House of Commons for another referendum.
I doubt that those elected members would dare as they might be afraid that the wrath of 17+ million might put them out of work given the nature of the fickle electorate and the legions that couldn’t be arsed to vote the first time may not save them.
However, if they did and by a majority, however slim or otherwise, I would abide by it.
Or, ....
Tbh I am actually finally done with this thread so you can all rejoice now. What mouldy has just suggested is the single dumbest thing I've heard in the past 3 years. He wants the EU to have a border between 2 of its members, and it's got 2 likes hahaha. I'm out
 

Mouldyoldspudgun

Well-Known Member
What? MPs hit the roof as it was illegal.
You want the EU to offer leave voters dual nationality?

What you wrote was that you want the EU to let Ireland who will remain in the EU if we leave to accept goods from a non EU country with zero checks, and somehow the EU know which goods from Ireland are originally from the UK and check them at ports... :risas2:

"If the EU wants to protect themselves can’t they trust the Irish to do it for them?" By not checking any goods coming from a non EU country? Honestly wtf are you on about
You are seriously stuck in one thought aren’t you? Do you have an EU passport? If so the EU are going to rescind your citizenship even though you voted to stay, in your words illegal but you don’t question that.
Read what you have written and how your thought process works in your mind we can have a border in the North Sea but not one between Ireland and the EU double standards or what?
I can see why people block you, I won’t I find it funny the way you doggedly support the EU, don’t listen to anyone else and will not research it, don’t be scared to have your mind tested
 

paulf

Well-Known Member
When you think that the country vote to join a 'common market' and what it is that we've been taken into by stealth it makes me wild with rage. My grandparents didn't go through the suffering of WW11 to then hand over our country within a lifetime.
Massive difference between a trading bloc and a political union with the EU ultimately being the state and the parliament being the supernational parliament for the EU state.
Just depends whether you're happy with that or not.
 

Mouldyoldspudgun

Well-Known Member
Tbh I am actually finally done with this thread so you can all rejoice now. What mouldy has just suggested is the single dumbest thing I've heard in the past 3 years. He wants the EU to have a border between 2 of its members, and it's got 2 likes hahaha. I'm out
Roberto what I say cannot be the dumbest thing you have heard in the past three years as it was suggested by the EU to Theresa May only with the border between us and Northern Ireland
 
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