Lath and plaster ceiling fix options?

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Heneage

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Hi all,

Been reading the forum for a while to help with various plans over the past year or so - so thanks for all the info. By way of intro I'm working through a refurb of a new-to-me 1930's semi. Bit of a DIYer for some things but try to know my limits.

I have a dilemma with my lath and plaster ceilings and I'd like to ask for some advice so I can make a decision. All the ceilings are covered in lining paper and I know this has been put up to cover cracking etc.

As I refurb the place I want a better fix than lining paper but am struggling to decide what to do already in room 1. I've taken some photos of the ceiling so far. I would say there are hairline cracks all over (like photo 2 and 3), a couple of more established wall to wall cracks (photo 4) and loose areas around the edges and some quite bad in the corners (photo 1). In the main the ceiling seems 'okay' - still sound in large parts but the nibs in the loft are very brittle (been in loft).

I don't think a re-skim will work very well and I don't want it overboarded. I am tending toward pull down and reboard but wonder whether a skim with reinforcing mesh might provide a reasonably decent fix? or is there any other options?

Comments gratefully received thanks!
 

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Depends on how well it's attached hanging more weight off it mesh or no mesh ain't gonna help if it's defying gravity as it is. Best you can do is get a spread in for opinion and a price . Looking at pics is a guessing game.
 
Pull down and reboard. I never skim over cracked or damage lath and plaster. Lots of dust musks will be needed!! Or order a new pair of lungs once you've finished.
 
As above.
If you have cornice then finish the boards around 10-25 mm short of the cornice this then looks perfectly normal when painted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Okay thanks. I suppose I wanted to double check there was no magic fix... I have taken cornice off already - it wasn't original and wasn't fixed very well. Not bad on the walls but on the ceiling it came off very easy in long lengths, mainly sticking to old paint I think. I will be having more put up so again I think a good reason to have the ceiling fixed properly first time.

My reluctance for boarding over is for the weight - 23kg per board plus skim on my poor old loft joists. Tempting though.

Thanks for the comments.
 
[QUOTE="Heneage, post: 933277, member: 27024"

My reluctance for boarding over is for the weight - 23kg per board plus skim on my poor old loft joists. Tempting though.

Thanks for the comments.[/QUOTE]

we overboard all the time without any problems,
if you are that concerned then use british gypsum glasroc F board, a fibre glass, light weight board. to which you can apply a skimcoat. a special order from your builders merchant.
 
Was just going to say - its mainly the weight that that I'm not keen on. Will have a look at the F board and also the wire/washer suggestion.
 
Unless your joists are shot or ridiculously thin it'll be fine. Or at the very most knock off the plaster and leave the paths on provided they are butt jointed

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk
 
Weight IS an issue overboarding a bedroom ceiling.

The joists are much smaller than ground floor ceilings as they're designed to hold a ceiling up not carry a load. The weight of anything in the loft, and the weight of the existing ceiling material and then add a quarter of a tonne dry weight that you're adding in boards and skim. All hanging on three by two and a half inch joists.

The ceiling is likely to be bowed anyway. What do you suppose will happen when you hang an additional quarter of a tonne off it? :eek:
 
i am yet to see any overboarded ceiling fail because of the extra weight .
as beddy states if the joists are in that poor of condition then a new roof is required as it will not stand the weight of the tiles/slates and a decent fall of snow.
 
malc said:
i am yet to see any overboarded ceiling fail because of the extra weight .
as beddy states if the joists are in that poor of condition then a new roof is required as it will not stand the weight of the tiles/slates and a decent fall of snow.
Click to expand...

What's the roof got to do with it? Roof joists and purlins have nothing to do with the load on ceiling joists.

The first floor ceiling joists in a normal construction have one purpose, to carry the ceiling. If you double the weight of the ceiling you don't need to be a structural engineer to work out that you've exceeded the design load.

As for never seeing one fail, if you mean collapse then probably not. If you mean bow due to the weight increase then I haven't seen one that hasn't.

As mentioned in many other threads, you can get away with many short cuts and bodges. Or you can do the job properly. The choices and advantages/disadvantages should always be explained to the customer. If they choose the less desirable method then you accept that but put in writing the possible outcomes. If you don't then you can do the job, take the money and ride off into the sunset on your horse.
 
imago said:
Weight IS an issue overboarding a bedroom ceiling.

The joists are much smaller than ground floor ceilings as they're designed to hold a ceiling up not carry a load. The weight of anything in the loft, and the weight of the existing ceiling material and then add a quarter of a tonne dry weight that you're adding in boards and skim. All hanging on three by two and a half inch joists.

The ceiling is likely to be bowed anyway. What do you suppose will happen when you hang an additional quarter of a tonne off it? :eek:
Click to expand...
Lol
Overboard all day long
 
Heneage said:
Hi all,

Been reading the forum for a while to help with various plans over the past year or so - so thanks for all the info. By way of intro I'm working through a refurb of a new-to-me 1930's semi. Bit of a DIYer for some things but try to know my limits.

I have a dilemma with my lath and plaster ceilings and I'd like to ask for some advice so I can make a decision. All the ceilings are covered in lining paper and I know this has been put up to cover cracking etc.

As I refurb the place I want a better fix than lining paper but am struggling to decide what to do already in room 1. I've taken some photos of the ceiling so far. I would say there are hairline cracks all over (like photo 2 and 3), a couple of more established wall to wall cracks (photo 4) and loose areas around the edges and some quite bad in the corners (photo 1). In the main the ceiling seems 'okay' - still sound in large parts but the nibs in the loft are very brittle (been in loft).

I don't think a re-skim will work very well and I don't want it overboarded. I am tending toward pull down and reboard but wonder whether a skim with reinforcing mesh might provide a reasonably decent fix? or is there any other options?

Comments gratefully received thanks!
Click to expand...
Overboard and skim , all the concern about weight is just over analysing a simple plastering job.
Lets say you got a plasterer do it for £### job done...start kicking down the ceiling and getting rid of waste will double the cost and is a total waste of time and money.
 
theplasterman said:
Overboard and skim , all the concern about weight is just over analysing a simple plastering job.
Lets say you got a plasterer do it for £### job done...start kicking down the ceiling and getting rid of waste will double the cost and is a total waste of time and money.
Click to expand...

It's not the job that's simple.

If you don't know what you're doing leave it alone, and clearly with all the nonsense about roof joists and weight not being an issue then quite a few haven't a clue.

This link gives you the spans and loads for C16 graded timber. Link Removed Of course I'm sure as it's a simple plastering job you'll realise that not all the ceiling joists will be graded. It also won't matter that if you double the load you need to increase the support.

I guess that's the problem with builders being jack of all trades rather than experts in one field. It means that builders actually have a clue what goes on behind the bit they're working on while the trade specialists carry on regardless without a fcuking clue.
 
imago said:
It's not the job that's simple.

If you don't know what you're doing leave it alone, and clearly with all the nonsense about roof joists and weight not being an issue then quite a few haven't a clue.

This link gives you the spans and loads for C16 graded timber. Link Removed Of course I'm sure as it's a simple plastering job you'll realise that not all the ceiling joists will be graded. It also won't matter that if you double the load you need to increase the support.

I guess that's the problem with builders being jack of all trades rather than experts in one field. It means that builders actually have a clue what goes on behind the bit they're working on while the trade specialists carry on regardless without a fcuking clue.
Click to expand...
This forum just gets better every day
 
imago said:
It's not the job that's simple.

If you don't know what you're doing leave it alone, and clearly with all the nonsense about roof joists and weight not being an issue then quite a few haven't a clue.

This link gives you the spans and loads for C16 graded timber. Link Removed Of course I'm sure as it's a simple plastering job you'll realise that not all the ceiling joists will be graded. It also won't matter that if you double the load you need to increase the support.

I guess that's the problem with builders being jack of all trades rather than experts in one field. It means that builders actually have a clue what goes on behind the bit they're working on while the trade specialists carry on regardless without a fcuking clue.
Click to expand...
Sorry to disagree but I do I haven't read the link u put up but the room looks like a simple board and skim new boards aren't going to make the house fall down
Sorry if anyone took what I said in the builder thread the wrong way it's just how I see it

God this weekend's turning into pick on Vince weekend.
 
Heneage said:
Hi all,

Been reading the forum for a while to help with various plans over the past year or so - so thanks for all the info. By way of intro I'm working through a refurb of a new-to-me 1930's semi. Bit of a DIYer for some things but try to know my limits.

I have a dilemma with my lath and plaster ceilings and I'd like to ask for some advice so I can make a decision. All the ceilings are covered in lining paper and I know this has been put up to cover cracking etc.

As I refurb the place I want a better fix than lining paper but am struggling to decide what to do already in room 1. I've taken some photos of the ceiling so far. I would say there are hairline cracks all over (like photo 2 and 3), a couple of more established wall to wall cracks (photo 4) and loose areas around the edges and some quite bad in the corners (photo 1). In the main the ceiling seems 'okay' - still sound in large parts but the nibs in the loft are very brittle (been in loft).

I don't think a re-skim will work very well and I don't want it overboarded. I am tending toward pull down and reboard but wonder whether a skim with reinforcing mesh might provide a reasonably decent fix? or is there any other options?

Comments gratefully received thanks!
Click to expand...
Hi pal can you standin the corner of your rooms take a picture of the whole ceiling and 2 more in the opposite corners of the walls
 
theplasterman said:
Sorry to disagree but I do I haven't read the link u put up but the room looks like a simple board and skim new boards aren't going to make the house fall down
Click to expand...

So you haven't bothered to read the information that proves your thoughts wrong, but you want to carry on with them. I guess facts are an inconvenience. No one mentioned anything about the house falling down, or even the ceiling falling down. Still, if your wrong I guess dramatic statements help to deflect attention.

bobby said:
This forum just gets better every day
Click to expand...

I know, sometimes it's hard to believe.
 
imago said:
It's not the job that's simple.

If you don't know what you're doing leave it alone, and clearly with all the nonsense about roof joists and weight not being an issue then quite a few haven't a clue.

This link gives you the spans and loads for C16 graded timber. Link Removed Of course I'm sure as it's a simple plastering job you'll realise that not all the ceiling joists will be graded. It also won't matter that if you double the load you need to increase the support.

I guess that's the problem with builders being jack of all trades rather than experts in one field. It means that builders actually have a clue what goes on behind the bit they're working on while the trade specialists carry on regardless without a fcuking clue.
Click to expand...

How would you go about reinforcing the timbers? Or would you just pull the ceiling down and board?
 
imago said:
So you haven't bothered to read the information that proves your thoughts wrong, but you want to carry on with them. I guess facts are an inconvenience. No one mentioned anything about the house falling down, or even the ceiling falling down. Still, if your wrong I guess dramatic statements help to deflect attention.



I know, sometimes it's hard to believe.
Click to expand...
Okay I not be dramatic just say as I see.

I asked him for room photos because if that is a 1930s ex council house in my opinion it just board and skim
 
Fu cking ell a plasterboard is spread over 2.88 sqm , using 50/75 mm drywall screws , nothing is gonna happen
 
Rossi46 said:
How would you go about reinforcing the timbers? Or would you just pull the ceiling down and board?
Click to expand...

Pull the old one down and board, it's rarely cheaper or easier to strengthen the timbers. If the customer doesn't want to pay for that then either do it under their acceptance of responsibility or say thanks but no thanks.
 
imago said:
What's the roof got to do with it? Roof joists and purlins have nothing to do with the load on ceiling joists.

The first floor ceiling joists in a normal construction have one purpose, to carry the ceiling. If you double the weight of the ceiling you don't need to be a structural engineer to work out that you've exceeded the design load.

As for never seeing one fail, if you mean collapse then probably not. If you mean bow due to the weight increase then I haven't seen one that hasn't.

As mentioned in many other threads, you can get away with many short cuts and bodges. Or you can do the job properly. The choices and advantages/disadvantages should always be explained to the customer. If they choose the less desirable method then you accept that but put in writing the possible outcomes. If you don't then you can do the job, take the money and ride off into the sunset on your horse.
Click to expand...


the roof is made up of a group of trusses, weather it is a cut roof or a truss put together under pressure in a factory.

i have never seen a ceiling collapse nor go out of shape owing to overboarding.

remember you are an office boy not a practical person.
 
superspread said:
Fu cking ell a plasterboard is spread over 2.88 sqm , using 50/75 mm drywall screws , nothing is gonna happen
Click to expand...

Yeah? It's not a dynamic or point load so ntohing dramatic like the ceiling collapsing is very likely.

However an additional 250 kg + dead load will cause the ceiling to sag. It's the same weight increase as putting a motorbike in the loft, or 10 25 litre tubs full of water.
 
imago said:
Yeah? It's not a dynamic or point load so ntohing dramatic like the ceiling collapsing is very likely.

However an additional 250 kg + dead load will cause the ceiling to sag. It's the same weight increase as putting a motorbike in the loft, or 10 25 litre tubs full of water.
Click to expand...
How would you get a motorbike in your loft?
 
malc said:
the roof is made up of a group of trusses, weather it is a cut roof or a truss put together under pressure in a factory.

i have never seen a ceiling collapse nor go out of shape owing to overboarding.

remember you are an office boy not a practical person.
Click to expand...

Well whatever you do for a living it clearly has nothing to do with understanding structure or loads. I'm not even going to explain why your first sentence is completely irellevant. Your second one either means you don't look or you don't get invited back.

Office boy? Am I making you feel insecure? Never mind, just try not to be so jealous, not everyone is cut out for the more technical side of things.
 
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